Is this still rumbling on.. Hadn’t it been agreed that after exercise sufficient to empty the tank you need a hit of carbs, tour riders seem to prefer a tin of cola , fanta etc and then some protein which you could get from a chicken salad but most of time it’s easier to have shake type recovery drink.

That’s what I’ve read in actual books and what my my body says works.

Jamz, amen to that !

The medicine Industry is muhassive ! They only make money if they sell tablets ! Its insane that as soon as some folk feel wobbly they feel the need to take on tablets ! Or powders.
It used to be that whey was a by product of cheese processing, now it’s the other way round ! Look at the great lumps of cheese on offer at the end of isles in supermarkets ? It’s only always on offer for a reason because they are producing so much of it !

Advertising ?

When you excercise you’re supposed to feel tired ! You’re legs are supposed to ache that’s why it’s called excercise ?
There are wonder drugs to help combat this ! You either ache after or suffer the long term side effects of taking on chemical inbalance ? The choice is yours and yours alone.

20 years ago no one would have thanked you for chemicals in a tub that would help you perform out of your body’s fine tolerance ? So why do it ?
It used to be train eat well and most importantly rest !

But now because you must take these wonder potions there is no rest ? It’s not needed.
I’m sure both protein & carbs can be had from eating a healthy balanced diet ? We have come this far ?

For those that can’t eat after excercise ? Once upon a time you would have struggled and as a consequence died a very early death ! It’s as simple as that, sitting in a cave waiting for some one to bring back a sabre tooth tiger so you can get fed ? Lame !
Running round trapping said beasty then returning to cave exclaiming “put mine in the fridge I’ll bob it in the microwave after coronation street” I can’t eat yet after all that running about you know what I’m like when I excercise ? would have seen you go hungry !
Probably starve.

Natural human selection.

😯

Has anyone mentioned the evils of mass-produced milk yet? I’m sure someone here must have an opinion on it.

Jamz +1

It’s easy to be blasé about this, but capitalism has created the myth that we need to consume food to stay alive. That may be the case for elite level athletes, but there’s now a growing body of evidence to suggest that for normal people, this simply isn’t the case.

I recommend you watch a video called THE FOOD CONSPIRACY MYTH – HOW BIG BUSINESS SHOVES CALORIES DOWN OUR THROATS! which will explain everything I’m saying. The gist of it is that when we were single-cell, amoebic entities, we simply absorbed nutrition through osmosis and our bodies are best adapted to function in this way.

After watching the video and reading the book by Professor Hyram P Bunkum, I simply immerse my body in a bath of mineral-rich optimised carbodiametic soup for 30 minutes every evening. I no longer need to eat.

I know people will claim that I’m talking rubbish, but all the studies showing otherwise are funded by evil capitalist cronies who have a vested interest in selling more and more food. I’m talking about folk like Brian Aldred, the major supermarkets, manufacturers of food packaging. All have a vested interest in convincing us that we need to eat to stay alive etc, ad nauseum. 😐

All this caveman bullshit does make me chuckle 😀

Were can i get a sabre tooth tiger?

It’s easy to be blasé about this, but capitalism has created the myth that we need to consume food to stay alive.

Hilarious however there is a valid argument that athletes are constantly bombarded by advertisements and pseudo science. Sports drinks (as well as excessive hydration) are an example of something that is ubiquitous and unnecessary.

Sports drinks (as well as excessive hydration) are an example of something that is ubiquitous and unnecessary.

I’ve tried bathing in them and many of them seem well adapted for osmotic absorption. It’s not the product that’s wrong, it’s people drinking them. Simply fill a bath, strip off and suck it up princess.

Bikes are also unnecessary, as is football and tennis and television.

If you think that sports drinks and recovery drinks are ESSENTIAL for cycling then you are obviously a marketing led idiot.

However, they have an effect, and it’s up to you if you decide that effect is useful for what you want to do. It is possible to make a decision based on trial and error, rather than marketing.

However, they have an effect, and it’s up to you if you decide that effect is useful for what you want to do.

How do you know they have an effect? is this based on your sample of 1? There is little evidence that they are any more effective than water and probably harmful given the calories and sugar that many contain.

“Marketing led” oh the irony.

How do you know they have an effect? is this based on your sample of 1?

Yes, but that’s all I care about since I’m the only person I feed on rides.

There is little evidence that they are any more effective than water

What? Are you saying that consuming carbohydrate (from whatever source, jelly babies, sandwiches whatever) during prolonged strenuous exercise has no effect on energy levels?

This is clearly not the case!

I suspect you are talking about ‘isotonic’ electrolyte based drinks. You could well be right, I don’t drink those for that very reason! Marketing led am I? Keep trying!

When I say ‘sports drinks’ I mean carbohydrate drinks.

What? Are you saying that consuming carbohydrate (from whatever source, jelly babies, sandwiches whatever) during prolonged strenuous exercise has no effect on energy levels?

No because that is not what is under discussion. We are talking about post exercise fueling using drinks, no? Taking on sources of carbohydrate, protein, fat etc after (and during for some sports) is appropriate. I am talking about expensive “marketing led” products as oppose to off the shelf products such as fruit, jam sandwiches etc as well as water.

When I say ‘sports drinks’ I mean carbohydrate drinks.

Which one exactly?

What are we discussing here ?

Pre excercise fueling
During excercise fueling
Post excercise fueling

It is all theory really. What is proven however is that for major endurance exercises beer aids recovery and race preparation:
Andy Holden
🙂

Oldbloke +1

We are talking about post exercise fueling using drinks, no?

Yes. I said quite a few times, that ~ANY carbs after exercise helps recovery – be it Torq, jam sandwiches, coke, jelly babies, whatever.

It is my personal experience that for me, Torq works somewhat better than sandwiches or coke. However I don’t think that SIS for example works any better than coke or plain maltodextrin, so I don’t buy it.

Just because didgerman (or anyone else) can’t explain it, doesn’t mean it’s definitely wrong.

Which one exactly?

Ok so for fuelling during riding, I mean anything based on maltodextrin, which is basically all of them. Maltodextrin:fructose 2:1 might work a little better than plain malto, I’m not sure. I have in the past bought flavoured Torq energy because it’s tasty and doesn’t contain aspartame, but certainly not for general riding or training. Too expensive.

Plain malto in a sack from ebay is only £7.99 for 5kg – that’d do you fine and is probably cheaper than anything else in terms of grammes of carbs!

Didgerman is arguing that you don’t need to eat anything after finishing a ride, you should wait til your next meal – your overall recovery won’t be affected.

Ask yourself; What would a caveman do?

Spend half the year starving and die in his late 20’s?

Sound’s like a crap diet to me!

Yes. I said quite a few times, that ~ANY carbs after exercise helps recovery – be it Torq, jam sandwiches, coke, jelly babies, whatever.

Then why did you ask me about Carbs DURING exercise? Anyway the fact that “some” carbs no doubt help with recovery is not in dispute in the same way that SOME protein, iron etc etc all help with recovery. The carb drink you mention is not good value. Carbs can be got through a wide range of foods, all of which offer other benefits and unless you are replacing “normal” foods with this carb drink then it is additive and therefore not good value is it?

Just because didgerman (or anyone else) can’t explain it, doesn’t mean it’s definitely wrong.

Explain what? Your unscientific experiment based on a sample of 1?

Molegrips

Are you a veggie ?

What about chill pills do they work?

Then why did you ask me about Carbs DURING exercise?

You said sports drinks are no better than water – I thought when you said sports drinks I thought you meant ALL sports drinks, which would include those intended for use during exercise.

Carbs can be got through a wide range of foods, all of which offer other benefits and unless you are replacing “normal” foods with this carb drink then it is additive and therefore not good value is it?

That plain malto is cheaper, g for g of carbs, than the cheapest white bread.

Of course it’s additive – if I’m doing lots of biking I’m going to need to eat more food, obviously. However if I use this instead of bread, it’ll work out cheaper.

Also, for me, high GI carbs work better than low GI after exercise. If I go on a big ride and just use normal meals to refuel I find myself very very hungry for a long time, several days. If I use recovery drink this doens’t happen.

As for this being an unscientific sample of one – of course it is, but like I say I’m not saying this stuff will work for everyone. If you read back, I suggest that the people TRY it and see.

And funnily enough, some of those who have tried it have noticed a benefit. I suppose they are wrong though. You know best of course.

Just eat well after a hard ride, it doesn’t have to be expensive or complicated. It’s not rocket science.

It’s not rocket science.

No its way more complicated than that…
Its STW science

True

I do have read a lot on the subject, have host of pubmed links and links to other studies regarding recovery windows, post-exercise protein studies (mostly related to strength training) and some fairly accomplished mates in endurance sports and a bit of personal experience.

That said, I drink recovery drinks infrequently, mostly after heavy workouts or long rides. It is quite a struggle to manage most important issues of being athlete: regular and progressive exercise, good basic diet, sleep and rest and skill training. At least recovery drinks are easy to get right and cost is less than 2 tyres per year.

some of those who have tried it have noticed a benefit. I suppose they are wrong though. You know best of course.

So from a sample of one you are now accepting anecdote? I’m not saying there is no benefit I just think it is largely unscientific marketing bullshit. Thats not to say you wont get a marginal benefit from it I just think if you have a healthy balanced diet it is superfluous.

That plain malto is cheaper, g for g of carbs, than the cheapest white bread.

Lots of things are cheaper than the “cheapest white bread” is that reason to add them to your diet? Do you normally eat the “cheapest white bread”? if so and you are replacing it with this then fine. I understood you were saying there was benefit in it over and above replacing something that most athletes dont include in their diet? Can you point to the evidence?

is that reason to add them to your diet?

NO THE REASONS ARE THE ONES I’VE BEEN GOING ON ABOUT FOR THE LAST FIVE PAGES! The reason I mentioned cost is that you said it was ‘expensive’ and ‘marketing led’. This is a plainly packaged bulk product. You’re just finding random shit to argue about, and you’re being incoherent.

Thats not to say you wont get a marginal benefit from it I just think if you have a healthy balanced diet it is superfluous

Fine. You do what works for you, I’ll do what works for me.

As for anecdote – it’s not anecdote – there’s years of evidence. Not double-blind, fair enough, but enough convince me.

Can you point to the evidence?

No, go find it yourself. I’m fed up of this – you’ve admitted there might be a marginal benefit, I’m saying there’s a benefit, so we agree. End of thread.

there’s years of evidence. Not double-blind, fair enough, but enough convince me.

No, go find it yourself. I’m fed up of this

So none then?

The reason I mentioned cost is that you said it was ‘expensive’ and ‘marketing led’. This is a plainly packaged bulk product.

Is it? Regardless of packaging if its superfluous and has a cost then it is a waste of money. Your money fine, knock yourself out. I am arguing that there is only trivial benefit that can easily be found more cheaply elsewhere. If it works for you then good however if you claim it works for you then I suspect it would be effective for everybody else hence I am interested in the evidence.
If that’s incoherent then sorry.

So none then?

Years of evidence for me, of my own experimentation. It’s not published or peer reviewed. If you want that, go find it yourself.

You aren’t half thick at times. Or deliberately being awkward to piss me of, not sure which.

I am arguing that there is only trivial benefit that can easily be found more cheaply elsewhere.

The point is that if you decide to take carbs after exercise then that maltodextrin is very cheap even compared to other carb-rich normal foods. So it’s not expensive.

ChunkyMTB – Member

Just eat well after a hard ride, it doesn’t have to be expensive or complicated. It’s not rocket science.

What he said, and he knows a thing or two 😀

You aren’t half thick at times

For someone with such thin skin you should be a bit more sensitive Molly

It’s not rocket science.

unless you have a particularly technical salad.

very true wwaswas

And then there’s the age old argument about which snake oil to dress said Rocket fuelled salad in ?

What if the salad has water cress in it ? Will the water in the cress change the lubrecicitttttttyy of the Oil ?
What will happen if no on actually cares about not eating properly any more ?

It’s the not knowing if I’m eating carbs / protein that confuses me ?
What happens if I get the ratios wrong and I overdose on carbs ?

Is that why I’m fat ?
I bet it is, I’d better start buying tubs of stuff and monster kill it till I’m muhassive !