lol^ yeah 182 cup edition here and even with the price of fuel i wouldn't give it up.

despite the fact its a wee car in reality there isn't much on the road these days that will worry it – the hardest thing is not speeding all the time.

Whereas the Golf feels mature … like your Mum.

Who for six people in this World, is Angelina Jolie…

Renault 5 Turbo2?

Please explain further.

power = torque * rpm * K

where 'K' is a constant relating your units of torque, rpm and power

Normaly you'd give those figures at the flywheel or driven wheels. If you imagine an idealised engine (note not the ideal engine, just a hypothetical one) with a completley flat torque 'curve' all the way from idle to a 10k rpm limiter it would have a power 'curve' that goes up in proportion to its revs i.e. it would have twice the power at 4krpm as it does at 2krpm.

Now heres some more maths:

acceleration = force/mass
acceleration = [(torque*k)-drag]/mass

k= a constant determined form the cars drive ratio, as mass is constant, acceleration at any point in time is proportional to the cars torque minus the sum of all the retardign forces acting on it.

However if you believe a car has no 'torque' as its not accelerating your mistaken. Look at the equation. thers 3 variables you can play arround with.

Torque – can be varied either by altering your trottle opening or engine revs (change gear) to find a value that suits you (the highest would be desirable for acceleration)

drag – trucks have massive torque, but wontaccelerate past 60 because theyre shaped like bricks

k – ok its a 'constant' but you can always downshift :-p and generate more 'torque' at the back wheels.

A road car with 400bhp at 10k is just producing just the asame torque as an F1 car doing 800bhp at 20k.

Spoon – I meant explain further about why I don't (apparently) know what torque is…

I did an engineering degree – I know what torque is! Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this though.

My dad's 172 cup doesn't rattle, even after trackdays. My mate has an early 172 with leather interior etc and it's still in great nick after 90k miles.

Renaultsports are assembled in the old Alpine factory in Dieppe, not with the other Renaults and so the build quality/reliability issues don't seem to apply.

Clio – power to weight innit, simple!

a friend had a Clio sport F1 (better suspension setup and brakes than standard one), and it was a mental car, stuck to the road like glue.

the ED30 is nice, nice as in safer bet.

i think you'd have more of a laugh in the Clio

Renaultsports are assembled in the old Alpine factory in Dieppe

power to weight innit

I think I'm decided. 😉

In Racing Blue, with leather interior.

you claimed an engine had no low down torque, I pointed out this isn't a fault in the engine, its your driving.

racing blue is the best colour. definitely. try and get one with recaro's factory fitted if poss, if not then get them – superbly comfy seats.

racing blue is the best colour. definitely. try and get one with recaro's factory fitted if poss, if not then get them – superbly comfy seats.

Starting to sound like a Renaultport forum thread now 🙂

The 200 I test drove had the Recaros. They're great seats, but mounted too high in the car for me (I'm 6'4''), so will have to go with the sports seats instead. No hardship, especially with leather if budget allows.

…and black Speedlines.

I think of these cars as a bit like four-wheeled BMX bikes. I think I'm trying to rediscover my youth 🙂

i've got a Golf and my experience of VWs is that they are anything but reliable. i was going to tpye out what went wrong with it, but instead i'll list the bits i didn't have a problem with:
– the clutch.

leggeblonde – nevermind your clio172 – I'll have your dads other car 444bhp please!

it's better for carrying bikes but the cup leaves it for dead in the twisty bits!

Today, I'd probably go for one of the Clio range (considering your choice of the golf or the clio), but don't expect the clio to be, robust.

Best Hot Hatch of all time ?, I reckon it was the Peugeot 205. I had one, absolutely brilliant, warts and all. Them were the days.
😉

S

Get the Clio. Yes the fall apart and a 182 tried to re-arrange the discs in my spine everytime i drove it, but WHAT FUN.

Golfs are dull dull dull.

Would take an R32 though for the exhaust note.

Focus STs are EXCELLENT cars, really very fast cross-country pace. Drink the fuel though.

This is the one my mate had, the yellow is horrible the black is nice but he had the gunmetal grey which was stunning.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Loved my old shape Type R , bomb proof engine , it was once said Honda hadnt had a single failure of this unit and had sold millions ,will be much more reliable than a golf and wont have the same electrics trouble that seem the norm with French cars

130i?

Heart says Clio hands down. VW's sadly don't handle the best.

Head says secondhand Golf- the sting of the depreciation will be softened and its possibly slightly more practical?

You craZy kids.

I thought fast cars were ok in my yoof.

Thenb I did a direct access course for a motorbike. It changes your conceptino of cars completely. I couldn't get excited over any large lump of car, no matter how expensive, if "sporting performance" was in any way important. In a traffic queue, you end up going exactly the same speed as Mrs Miggins in her metro ahead of you.

The connection with the road, and the diminished likelyhood of taking out a bus queue on a bike, meansa £1000 second hand bike allied to £500 for the course to ride, > £20k on a box with 3 empty seats taking up half the road.

Although if I had to stoop down to a box again, it would have to be an Alfa of some decription.

I have to agree actually. I have had some seriously nice cars over years but now at 37 with two kids, the thought of spending money on a car which just depreciates, uses lots of heavily taxed fuel and absolutely crazy (where I live) insurance prices, not for me again. Crazy crazy crazy.

Though for the record, I'd go for a 123d, chipped of course.

Civic Type R? There is hydrolocking?

Both of those choices are terrible, why not get something proper like a 330i/d?

I'm lucky enough to live in an Edition 30/Clio 197 household and they are both phenominal but completely different hot hatches. The Golf is refined and luxurious (for a htachback) but still has a fair bit of poke – noticeably more than the standard mk5 GTI I used to have – and has a great but 'German' chassis. The Clio gets a bit wearing on the motorway and is fairly Spartan inside, but down a B road is absolutely amazing. It can literally be driven at 100% and is so adjustable and playful.

If I had to have only one it would definately be the Golf, but Id be very sad to see the Clio go!

CTR every time for me, I have one in fact. It loves being revved, yes you need to be in the right gear but the gearchange is perfectly placed for maximum use. Bit noisy and harsh on motorways but bearable, massively quick on B roads.
Only real downside for me is fuel consumption, live in the country so mostly B road use, average around 18mpg, can be as low as 10 when ragged 😯

Used to run an old shape type-r.In the three years i had it it never missed a beat.The only problem with it was it would pass anything bar a petrol station 😆

Go for a good Corrado VR6, then sell it after a year and get your money back, then lament that its gone and weep because you'll never find another one that good again. Like I did! 😥

Both of those choices are terrible, why not get something proper like a 330i/d?

330d is one of the most disappointing cars I have ever driven, just nothing special about it at all.

all wrong, a minter mk2 16 valve golf

if we're talking hot hatches, then the CTR is a great bet. What i dont get is hot hatches are meant to be ordinary everyday cars that come alive when thrashed which the CTR does. Ride is stiff though.

After my experience of owning a megane 225 sport (the wrong one) i dont think i'd ever own a renault again. Amazingly unreliable.The 200cup though does look great andgets amazing write ups

The golf, well its so boring, and everyone who's old has one

The new leon cupra r is amazingly quick but with horrible styling and boring interior

astra vxr are understeer heaven and chavs mobiles

My list would probably be

1. megane R26.R ( i know i slagged of renaults but this is an awesome machine. Hopefully they would of sorted mechanicals out compared to my version)
2. Civic Type R
3. Last of the old shape impreza wrx ppp
4. mitsubishi evo ix mr 340

Go for a good Corrado VR6, then sell it after a year and get your money back, then lament that its gone and weep because you'll never find another one that good again. Like I did!

Or keep it. Like I did. And run a tweaked 8-valve Mk2 GTi for day to day stuff. And wonder why anyone wants a bloated overweight, fat, modern hot hatch :-/

Go for a good Corrado VR6, then sell it after a year and get your money back, then lament that its gone and weep because you'll never find another one that good again.

Already done that, but with a Porsche 944 S2.

wonder why anyone wants a bloated overweight, fat, modern hot hatch

Air-con.

I'm lucky enough to live in an Edition 30/Clio 197 household

Bastid! 😀

you claimed an engine had no low down torque, I pointed out this isn't a fault in the engine, its your driving.

No I didn't. I said they need thrashing to get the performance (which is good at high revs) from the engine. Not a lot happens until about 6k rpm in a CTR. Or will you also argue that? Peak torque is just over 140lbs-ft which isn't very much – or will you argue that point too? Wasn't driving it properly – ermmm – please expand on that point.

Loddrik (from TSN by any chance) – what have you got now? Has the Alpina gone?

I've had a mk2 GTi, a mk3 GTi and a mk4 R32 Golf – yes the mk2 is a lovely little car but I still think a good french hatch outhandles them and they have almost no brakes.They are also terrible thief magnets.

It was interesting to see the evolution (if you can call it that) of the Golf from basic (dad had the 7th mk1 GTi in the UK, then one of the last of the 1.8 Mk1s too) and nippy to complex and heavy but quicker overall. A mk1 1.6 GTi could not be any more different to a mk5 R32 or a mk6 Golf R yet they are all still a lot of fun.

Early hatches were good in many ways but they aren't very safe, driving them a long way is wearing (my mk2 at 80 was flipping noisy) and crashing one will probably kill you.

However if you want to do it properly, stick a VR6 or a 20VT engine into a mk2 and fit some proper brakes – a true sleeper and track weapon.

tbh got to agree with another 'poster', hot hatches were great when I was younger and they were 'hot hatches' – but now I want power along with smoothness and comfort.

So before buying one, have a try of a car with a big motor (auto of course) in it. I've an E39 535i, but anything with a V6/V8 of at least 3 litre will work; e.g. 5 series, A4/A6/A8, S type (esp 4.0), CL Mercs etc.

While they are dear on juice they can be bought cheaply and are built very well.

smoothness and comfort.

We'll be trading in my wife's Rav4 for a Citroen C6 when they've done a bit more depreciating.

So the hot hatch is for driving fun + ability to carry a dog and a tent (so no Boxster / MX-5 type of thing, unfortunately).

have a try of a car with a big motor (auto of course)

… missing the point slightly. I want a small, light, uncomplicated car that's fun to drive, without killing yourself or others.

Not sure if an Edition 30 is small and uncomplicated!

TBH if you already have/will soon have a mile muncher, the Clio might be a more attractive option. A 182 Trophy is the ultimate (IMO) last shape model but most are a hoot to drive.