Loads of job offers in my area but the requirements are weird - previous experience of the position. Fine, but where do you start? C'mon, I WANT TO GET RICH!
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"Project Manager", howdo you become one?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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I'm nearing the end of a £90k building/renovation project which I got lumbered with project managaging,didn't really mean to, I just do admin.
I've not got rich doing it either.Got to have scaffoling down by tomorrow evening at the latest, they didn't turn up Friday, Saturday or today...
Posted 1 year ago # -
lol - rich? most of my team are on very similar if not more.
what industry?
If you want serious money with bugger all accountability try becoming an IT architect.
Posted 1 year ago # -
you must have been looking at all those contract PM jobs then.
As far as I can work out you need mates on the inside (I guess rolling up 1 trouser leg might help) the ability to bullshit is good and the willingness to move on damm quick if it goes wrong!!
Apart from that be able to drive ms project and know what a couple more of the buttons do than the next guy.
Most seem to be good at
accountabilityworking out whose fault it is/was and making sure it's not them!Posted 1 year ago # -
In Ireland there seems to be a vast shortage of PM's. I've been asked by employment agencies if I was capable of the job. If I were, the pay was circa 60k Euro p/a. It'd be tax free for me too (tax credits etc.).
Seriously, I understand it's about managing people, materials and getting the job done. But where do you start?Posted 1 year ago # -
Before setting up on my own I was a Contracts Manager, managing various 'Projects'.
The job could be quite stressful, although I was expected to be an Estimator, Buyer, QS and Accountant during my daily tasks.
I ended up being Contracts Manager after spending years as an Electrician, then Foreman, Supervisor and ultimately Manager.
I was on a fairly decent salary, but certainly not 'get rich' material at around £40k pa, plus company car, other perks etc. Project managers might be able to command £50-£60k top whack, but also a lot less - this would come with an impressive CV and experience though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What industry?
In our company, software developers often have an opportunity to become project managers after 2 or 3 years - well, those that have good communications skills
Posted 1 year ago # -
Forget it then, I'll wait for my wife to set up her Montessori in a few years. For now, anything will do as long as it pays the bills.
Thanks!Posted 1 year ago # -
Having worked with many, it seems the steps are:
1) Accidentally run a project
2) Mess it up
3) Learn from your mistakes and improve
4) Repeat.Step 3 can be seen as optional.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Offer them cheap labour or be a slave to gain some experience first.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Get qualified PRINCE2 or APM. They are not the whole answer but a good guide. Experience helps of course in your chosen field.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Good place to start if you want IT or public sector work.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm in IT project management (I'm a senior analyst with a major highstreet bank). There are a number of courses that you can look at but all depends on which role you are looking at. My thought would be if you have no pm experience I'm afraid you'll need to start from the bottom and get the experience on the job IMO. I would never recruit anyone with no experience. Start off as an analyst on a reasonably good 250-300 a day outside of London. Look at the likes of iseb business analysis course and then think about progressing to price 2 starting with foundation and working your way up to practisioner. Be prepared to spend in the region of 5-6k over a few years to get you there. Be warned but this level of recruitment won't last forever. It's all about supply and demand. The Market is at it's highest in 10 years but the big paying jobs will start to run out in 2-3 years after alot of activity in financial services finishes.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Having worked with many, it seems the steps are:
1) Accidentally run a project
2) Mess it up
3) Learn from your mistakes and improve
4) Repeat.Step 3 can be seen as optional.
1. Tick
2. Tick
3. Hmmm.
4. Already got stuck with another one...Posted 1 year ago # -
"Project Manager", howdo you become one?
Youre going on next years Apprentice then.
Posted 1 year ago # -
From my experience a decent pm is good at managing time and money. You can get these skills anywhere but a proper, in depth knowledge of risk management seems to help as well.
Posted 1 year ago # -
PRINCE2
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ok so if its IT... I started as a grad analyst programmer, then moved around every 6 months or so doing support, design, analysis, then became a junior project manager. All in about 4-5years IT experience before first pm job. Been at it for another 5-6 years or so.
If you're crap its about filling out forms and arse covering. If you are good then its about leading your team. Most fit in the first camp.
Oh - you don't need msp to plan or run a project.
Prince2 is a start, msp or mor are also helpful, I'm currently quite into Agile (love or hate) and in the lucky position to be able to run my projects the way I want. Mostly scrum at the moment.
Salary wise, even as a contractor when you compare to contract dev jobs it is about the same. And it's alot easier to get fired as a pm. If your face doesn't fit....
Be prepared to take a lot of crap, 99% of it won't be your fault either. I spend most of my working day trying to peace keep between senior mgmt than actually running my team.
You can get all the qualifications you like but if people don't want to work for you, you will find it very very hard
It's the hardest job I've done by a long shot. I was up 5am sat morning fretting about work emailing and was responded to by a colleague by 6am....
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you want serious money with bugger all accountability try becoming an IT architect.
Oh if only that was true. Generally I would agree where the philosophy is architected design, but when you move to implemented architecture through SOA and the use of a canonical data model it is sadly no longer the case.
Currently I am working 50 plus hours a week, getting through perhaps 30% of the work that needs to be done, and in relative terms am being paid peanuts.
Not drawn a pretty picture in months
Posted 1 year ago # -
Get Prince 2 and APM Qual, plus experience, generally PM's are recruited internally from within an organisation.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Prince 2 is (I'll get banned if I use the word I was going to). It's a method of trying to turn project management into operations / civil service management. Great for getting jobs relating to IT and government; better if it's government IT (and that goes well generally doesn't it). I've worked to it and it was more about ticking boxes than making sure the project was delivering anything.
Personally I got an MSc in Engineering Project Management from Lancaster Business School (part of Lancaster Uni) - and almost instantly stopped doing project management.
I've done OK though and the course was excellent - it just made you think about yourself rather too much at times. Very few of my fellow students (I was the youngest graduating at 30) are still in project management - a couple are but senior line mangers, consultants and the like abound.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I agree with agm about prince2, however if I was recruiting I'd still expect a pm to have the qualification, and I'd ask them what they think.
It's very useful when you start out, but for most organisations it has turned into tick boxing, where people measure performance and success based on documentation and adherence to standards...and I hate that with a passion. It should be about happy customers and results, the documents are a means to an end not the goal!... then again I don't think I fit the IT project manager mold very well at all, well not any more.
GJP - I'm just bitter at the moment having been stitched up by a few too many technology choices - I can google gartner magic quadrants and draw pretty pictures too
Posted 1 year ago # -
From my experience being in "maintenance", project managers make the same mistakes again and again, fail to clear snags (sometimes very major), think that temporary botches and work arounds can be accepted as the final product.
Blame maintenance when the new kit fails to work claiming what the were given at the beginning of the possession was faulty (it was not, voice tapes and data logs proved it at a meeting/post mortem)
Seemingly listen to the maintenance tech tell him that particular feeder is no good for where it is situated, tell him he'll get it changed and then bullshit when it doesn't and say its suitable for its current application.
Oh and the worst bit I've heard of was the level of pressure applied to maintenance managers to accept work into "maintenance" as finished when it clearly was not.
Sorry if this sounds a bit bitter but after nearly 20 years in the rail industry I've yet to see one project come in on time, on budget and actually work properly.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Double post....ooops
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry if this sounds a bit bitter but after nearly 20 years in the rail industry I've yet to see one project come in on time, on budget and actually work properly.
If anything like IT, as PM you are often presented with the end date and budget - and then told to plan and manage it...
Last place I worked I was asked by M&A if I had a spare PM as we'd just bought a company. They'd agreed with the 'seller' that we'd get them off the host systems in 6 months and that the budget was £250k. I did a quick assessment and suggested they go back and re-negotiate for 12 months, and ask the 'big man' for another £250k.
In the end we spent £450k and took 11 months.
The next acquisition the M&A guy worked on, he got me in before they'd signed up...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry if this sounds a bit bitter but after nearly 20 years in the rail industry I've yet to see one project come in on time, on budget and actually work properly.
Probably because half the time that should be spent working, is actually spent hanging around for posessions and permits
Posted 1 year ago # -
STR - you forgot to mention that was for a track closed by Beeching
Posted 1 year ago # -
Aye Prince 2 is box ticking. APM is a bit more about the thought that goes into it. Agree with all said before. Best way to get into it is to do the quals and then join a place where you can get a coordinator/Assistant role and then move on after 12 months.
PM here for 12 years (way too long). Still love the kick when it all comes together.
If you want to be rich, become a plumber or a gas fitter though.
EDIT Oh and a plan is out of date on the day it is published
Posted 1 year ago # -
Most peoples replies are about right. I work in city as an IT PM and as a contractor it can be relatively lucrative with the right contract. Running projects is an interesting skillset, sure a tick in thebox for prince is good but the bigger contracts/jobs will be looking for experienced old hands. The main skills used are usually people skills, sure you need to be able to plan, use excel, etc but mostly it's knowing how to deal with a customer and your supplying team. Good luck.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'd agree with most of what has been said, i've managed a variety of public projects ranging from £80k to several million, i've just finished the PRINCE2 course practitioner course and passed, it doesn't give you all the answers and is quite prescriptive but it is an industry recognised qualification that, for the week you are learning it you must be accepted as gospel, if you try to apply logic or experience you'll fail.
I must admit its extremely intense and you have to literally write off a week of your life, but i've done some job searches and its a requirement of lots of current position. I'll be looking in 9 months or so as the project i'm currently managing is entering its last year of delivery.
I did my qualification with Maven Training they have quite a good pass rate.
It's quite a good line of work, i've been involved in loads of different and interesting stuff, no two projects are the same.
Any questions i'd be happy to answer
Cheers
Nick
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry if this sounds a bit bitter but after nearly 20 years in the rail industry I've yet to see one project come in on time, on budget and actually work properly.
Probably because half the time that should be spent working, is actually spent hanging around for posessions and permitsYou've never worked on one of mine then
Two big'ish (just under £500k combined) rail renewal/remodelling projects under my belt in the last year, on time, within budget, fully functioning and a hearty thank you from the client he hee
You generally end up running projects that suit your skills and abilities, there are many many people who call themselves Project Managers in the Rail Industry, but very few who can Manage a Project
Posted 1 year ago # -
I have Prince2 and APM. APM is a better approach and qualification. Lot more difficult exam. Fist degree as systems engineer.
Posted 1 year ago # -
PRINCE2, MOR & MSP practitioner here. All public sector work for me though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
My business cards say "project manager". Where I work it's just a catch all phrase for people in management who shout a lot.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The absolute, most important thing that a project manager can do is (apparently), book a holiday for the go live period. They must teach this one in project manager school.
You know when in Hill Street Blues when every time the guys went to walk out the door from the morning meeting and the staff sargent would stop them and say 'Hey, be careful out there.'?
Well I reckon that's what happens in Project Manager school, 'Hey, book a holiday during go live'
If you want serious money with bugger all accountability try becoming an IT architect.
I think you mis-typed 'IT consultant'. All the IT architects I know, and I work with quite a lot since I'm one too, have project completion clauses written into their performance reviews. I know I do. If I cock up one architecture I lose some money, if I cock up more than one then my ability to perform is brought into question. And we don't get paid that much. (But admittedly, more than the project managers)
Posted 1 year ago #
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