cheez0 – Member
Let the bleeding heart landlords on here open their doors to homing some of the people in that case?
spare room? Take one in.

make no mistake, when these people have got their feet under the table they will want to turn this country into a replica of the place they fled.

The problem needs to be stopped at source.
its a stealth IS invasion.
how do you think they feel? They will be clapping their hands.
Let migrants settle, give them benefits, voting etc, then send the radical preachers in.

as others say, this country needs to look after itself first.
Where is your outrage for our homeless in this country?

cheez0 – Member

make no mistake, when these people have got their feet under the table they will want to turn this country into a replica of the place they fled.

The problem needs to be stopped at source.
its a stealth IS invasion.
how do you think they feel? They will be clapping their hands.
Let migrants settle, give them benefits, voting etc, then send the radical preachers in.

That dead toddler washed up on a beach was part of an IS invasion hell bent on destroying our country?

Well they didn’t tell us that on the TV news last night!

Perhaps we should be celebrating that he didn’t make it cheez0 ?

****

Incidentally I posted the picture of the Syrian boy on my Facebook page, and it was removed on the grounds that it “contained graphic violence”. You have to wonder what’s going on sometimes.

Cheez0 – word of warning. Your words are racist and you’ve just published them on a public forum. Your identity is not anonymous.

Is there anything else to do other than welcome them throughout Europe, in our societies. Make them colleagues, friends and neighbors. Make the world a better place not through hate and war, but through solidarity and common sense of purpose?

I feel this is a defining moment. It is no longer a couple of immigrants, or a couple of thousand, we are looking at a mass migration of populations that are escaping from hell. FFS, is there any other answer than to stop thinking about ‘us’ and ‘them’, and instead just ‘we’

I fear for this country. Not because of some refugees, but because I’m worried that the views exhibited by some on this thread will prevail.

Look at that little boy. He had a name, Aylan Kurdi, he had a big brother, his mother lovingly tied his shoelaces that morning – and now they’re all dead.

And some people seriously think he was the spearhead of an IS invasion.

The callousness, ignorance and heartlessness of some people is breathtaking.

Lady Anelay’s statement – “We understand that by withdrawing this rescue cover we will be leaving innocent children, women and men to drown who we would otherwise have saved. But eventually word will get around the war-torn communities of Syria and Libya and the other unstable nations of the region that we are indeed leaving innocent children, women and men to drown. And when it does, they will think twice about making the journey. And so eventually, over time, more lives will be saved.”
Lady Anelay is one of Cameron’s Foreign Office Ministers the quote comes from the announcement of the Governments decision to withdraw maritime rescue in the Med last October. The picture that horifies is the embodiment of our government’s deliberate policy.

Ashamed to share the same planet as some of you let alone the same country. Sickening beyond belief.

cheezO you are a deluded and hateful individual.

It is terrible that anyone should suffer in this way but no one has the right to suggest that others should have the same sympathy as themself. It would be polite at the least to prefix many of the above comments with “in my opinion” and not try to impose selfish/self indulgent views on others. Bit like the helmet debate really.
Whilst I am moaning would people stop trying to slap their left wing moaning onto rather more important topics.
Ever noticed that its the so called goody two shoes, social minded, kind hearted socialists who preach consideration for all, who are the least considerate of other peoples views?
If you want to have a go at UK politicians start your own topic.

So you don’t really give a shit, and you expect other people not to either because it makes some tiny part of you feel slightly ashamed to realise how lacking you are in basic human decency? That’s how I read it.

As the population of our planet continues to increase we will keep having more and more people in need. We have to face the fact the the planet is reaching the point of no return in terms of resources.
Global media gives every one an insight into the way that other people live and often a desire to emulate that standard of living. There have been wars and conflict from the day humans started to populate earth over resources and religion etc. and signing a petition on Facebook is not going to solve that.
Whilst I applaud the efforts of individuals to want to do something, there are plenty of kids already in the UK that need foster care or adoption and we don’t all rush to sort that issue because it is not a current media topic.
I have no idea what the solution to the current refugee situation is but I don’t think opening our country to anyone and everyone that wants to live here is the solution.
Feel free to flame me. This is just my opinion and that doesn’t make it any more or less valid than yours.

Feel free to flame me.

What’s the point? It’s the reaction you want. I just have to hope that yours is a minority opinion, or you’re just a sad troll.

The way I understand it is that a troll is someone who deliberately bates people on the internet. I am actually expressing my opinion on this issue which may not be the same as yours. For your information I am actually a fairly happy person but I am sad that you feel the need to personally insult me.

adoption and we don’t all rush to sort that issue because it is not a current media topic.

There’s a shortage of and high demand for babies and very young children for adoption.

Whilst I applaud the efforts of individuals to want to do something, there are plenty of kids already in the UK that need foster care or adoption and we don’t all rush to sort that issue because it is not a current media topic.

You see, it doesn’t sound like you are ‘applauding the efforts of individuals who want to do something’, it sounds like you are engaging in some pretty low whataboutery to try and justify your own lack of compassion. Amazingly enough it’s possible to care about more than one thing at the same time.

This is just my opinion and that doesn’t make it any more or less valid than yours.

Yes it would be great if more people were willing to be foster carers or adopt – but grim as it may be sometimes generally speaking kids in the care system in this country are at least having their basic needs met: food, water, shelter, safety etc. You can’t say the same for many of these refugees, which is why people appear to feel quite passionately about the issue.

Taking in, feeding, housing and clothing those fleeing from war, politics and famine is laudable and of course should be done.

But its throwing money at a symptom while ignoring the cause, which seems to be that the whole middle east has descended into new levels of barbarity and anarchy.

Leaving aside whose fault it is, what can be done to turn back into an area where one can live, work and bring up families in peace and moderate prosperity?

The area’s population has increased while resources become more stretched. The area has been getting more and more arid since the climatic optimum due to over use of farm land and climatic change which man is now enhancing. So fund projects that will make a green revolution possible in the area and cut your carbon footprint.

Leaving aside whose fault it is, what can be done to turn back into an area where one can live, work and bring up families in peace and moderate prosperity?

But its throwing money at a symptom while ignoring the cause, which seems to be that the whole middle east has descended into new levels of barbarity and anarchy.

It’s not either/or – that’s Cameron’s big mistake. We can do all we can to help people now, fishing them out of the water and letting them into our country to build new lives. At the same time, we can ask what we can do to prevent such tragedies in the future.

Saying we shouldn’t save lives now because we have to solve the Middle East’s problems first is avoiding our human responsibility on an epic scale.

In the long run, what’s the worst that can happen if we let in thousands of refugees? We let in 30,000 Ugandan Asians when Idi Amin expelled them, did that have a negative impact on the UK’s way of life. Far from it.

But its throwing money at a symptom while ignoring the cause, which seems to be that the whole middle east has descended into new levels of barbarity and anarchy.

No one is saying you can’t do both

Look at the picture of Homs up there ^^^

Do you really think people in that situation don’t have legitimate reasons to flee, don’t they need immediate help?

Yes, our government should engage in a long term plan to help the region (although their attempts at “help” so far seem to have failed) but that doesn’t stop us extending help to people in genuine need right now.

If it had been a picture of a dead puppy on the news yesterday, instead of a little brown boy, the outcry would have seen the problem solved already.

I was going to buy a new lens for my camera this week. I really don’t need it so the money I was going to spend went to Save The Children this morning. If it makes even one child’s life a little more bearable it’ll be worth it, but it’s just nowhere near enough.

I have unfriended a couple of people this morning for posting that picture on FB unheralded. Its not that I don’t care, I just don’t really want to see pictures of dead children. Or perhaps I want a choice in whether I look at them. How desensitized are you people ?

Anyways, I have been thinking quite hard about offering my spare room as temporary accommodation to some refugees, for free. I guess the local council would be the place to make enquiries about that ?

I just don’t really want to see pictures of dead children. Or perhaps I want a choice in whether I look at them. How desensitized are you people ?

It seemed to be on all the front pages of the newspapers in the newsagents today. I don’t want to see pictures of dead children either, not many people do. Unfortunately in some countries people (and other children) are forced to see dead children for real – they are not pictures in newspapers, including countries which we have bombed.

I think it’s the lack of reality, or even pictures of reality, which desensitizes people with regards to war. More graphic images is what is most likely to sensitize people imo.

The tragic picture of Aylan’s lifeless body has certainly done that.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/03/refugee-crisis-syrian-boy-washed-up-on-beach-turkey-trying-to-reach-canada

And sadly it is like the Roman Empire – only sustainable due to expansion. The pictures will just get more distressing to bait more clicks. I’m not playing.

OP, there are some maybe useful links/suggestions as to what you can do over on mumsnet
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/2459825-Refugee-children

It feels odd swanning around Canary Wharf in a turmoil because the queue to Wasabi is a little long and I’ve made do with a curry from the office canteen. Elsewhere in Europe there might be a man desperately trying to stop his young child from drowning after their overcrowded boat into Europe capsized.

There needs to be a European wide joint effort to manage the refugees – the fact that there are people in Hungary desperately trying to get to Germany shows that these people aren’t treated equally in all European member states.

I have unfriended a couple of people this morning for posting that picture on FB unheralded. Its not that I don’t care, I just don’t really want to see pictures of dead children. Or perhaps I want a choice in whether I look at them.

That is, in a nutshell, the problem that we have in the west.

Lady Anelay’s statement – “We understand that by withdrawing this rescue cover we will be leaving innocent children, women and men to drown who we would otherwise have saved. But eventually word will get around the war-torn communities of Syria and Libya and the other unstable nations of the region that we are indeed leaving innocent children, women and men to drown. And when it does, they will think twice about making the journey. And so eventually, over time, more lives will be saved.”

She didn’t that is Dan Hodges’s attempt to make a point paraphrasing what she said – the article in which he did it is here

Yes peterfile, my repugnance at being forced looking at pictures of dead children leads directly to the bombing of innocent civilians in Syria. My objection is to the titillation and revenue generation. These were real people with real families.

Did you really think that the war in Syria was all made up until you opened your facebook feed this morning ??

Should I also be watching all the executions of gays on youtube – would that make me a better person too ? Would it also solve all the problems with ISIS – how has nobody cottoned on to that yet ??

Even the Guardian didn’t show the kids face. Which was slightly better.

my repugnance at being forced looking at pictures of dead children …..

Well I said earlier many people have been forced to look at dead children as the direct result of the actions of our governments.

But fair enough, here’s a picture of Aylan in happier times with his older brother Galip who also drowned.

I have posted this in the other thread currently discussing similar things, I’ll post it here too.

Anyone who genuinely thinks the tide is turning and compassion for fellow man in regards to the refugee scenario in Calais is coming to the fore should take a look at the utterly vitriolic hatred being spouted on the Facebook comments of this Justgiving page.

People are actually willing to put their names to these comments. The privileged scum that resides in this country is making me feel sick.

https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/solidarity

Badly worded above on my behalf but the outright ignorant hatred of some of those comments has me waffling a bit.

Saw this earlier – lead in paraphrased

The photography expert Patricia Holland wrote about this in What Is A Child?: Popular Images of Childhood in the 1990s. She said the focus on kids in disaster or war zones was, weirdly, about making Westerners feel good:

‘As the children in the image reveal their vulnerability, we long to protect them and provide for their needs. Paradoxically, while we are moved by the image of the sorrowful child, we also welcome it, for it can arouse pleasurable emotions of tenderness.’

But fair enough, here’s a picture of Aylan in happier times with his older brother Galip who also drowned.

I don’t know if it’s the point hels was making, but there appears to be different levels of respect being shown because they are random foreigners.
If those were pictures of a friend’s son, people wouldn’t be posting pictures of their dead offspring being picked up off the beach all over facebook. What makes it acceptable when you don’t know them?

Yes peterfile, my repugnance at being forced looking at pictures of dead children leads directly to the bombing of innocent civilians in Syria. My objection is to the titillation and revenue generation. These were real people with real families.

Did you really think that the war in Syria was all made up until you opened your facebook feed this morning ??

Should I also be watching all the executions of gays on youtube – would that make me a better person too ? Would it also solve all the problems with ISIS – how has nobody cottoned on to that yet ??

Even the Guardian didn’t show the kids face. Which was slightly better.

Calm down, it wasn’t a personal attack.

The point was that it’s easy for us in the west to just “turn off” what we don’t want to see.

For some people, not seeing it just means it’s another story in the paper. I’m not an advocate for shock type media (i.e. this photo), but it’s a poignant reminder that this is not just economic zone commuters we’re talking about, it’s not herds of nameless and faceless migrants, it’s real people and real kids like our own.

Sorry hels, I wasn’t trying to suggest that was applicable to you.

Thanks Ian, that is kind of what I was trying to say.

With the added thought that the more pictures of dead children we see, the less we care about the dead children. Its cheap, and its exploitative, in a world where page views means money.

If those were pictures of a friend’s son, people wouldn’t be posting pictures of their dead offspring being picked up off the beach all over facebook. What makes it acceptable when you don’t know them?

It’s fairly normal for newspapers to publish pictures of corpses in war zones, certainly going back to at least the Vietnam War.

In fact up to that point the Vietnam War was the most photographed and filmed war in history. And it was precisely because people were receiving images on their TV screens and in their newspapers that the tide of public opinion turned against the war and eventually led to US withdrawal.

Without the power of photography and film the Vietnam War would remained much more remote from US public opinion.

Never underestimate the power of a photograph. This photograph taken after a US napalm attack in Vietnam helped to speed up the end of the war :

I hope that the picture of Aylan’s tragic lifeless body being washed up a beach helps to jolt some compassion in world leaders. The unprecedented coverage it has received not just on newspapers front pages but also on TV stations (I’ve never seen that before) suggests that others hope so too.

So mefty I am prepared to be corrected about the quote but what did Lady Anelay say the rationale for, and effect of, removing the maritime rescue was?

Here you go

We do not support planned search and rescue operations in the Mediterranean. We believe that they create an unintended “pull factor”, encouraging more migrants to attempt the dangerous sea crossing and thereby leading to more tragic and unnecessary deaths. The Government believes the most effective way to prevent refugees and migrants attempting this dangerous crossing is to focus our attention on countries of origin and transit, as well as taking steps to fight the people smugglers who wilfully put lives at risk by packing migrants into unseaworthy boats.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Many bits of my American heritage bother me, but some bits the USA got absolutely, completely spot on. The UK as much as the USA is built on wave after wave of immigration, and both countries are all the better for it.

The UK as much as the USA is built on wave after wave of immigration, and both countries are all the better for it.

Every one of which was opposed by roughly the same bunch of Knuts.

We do not support planned search and rescue operations in the Mediterranean. We believe that they create an unintended “pull factor”, encouraging more migrants to attempt the dangerous sea crossing and thereby leading to more tragic and unnecessary deaths. The Government believes the most effective way to prevent refugees and migrants attempting this dangerous crossing is to focus our attention on countries of origin and transit, as well as taking steps to fight the people smugglers who wilfully put lives at risk by packing migrants into unseaworthy boats.

Given the scale of this whole thing – the biggest movement of people since World War 2 – that statement looks more and more ridiculous by the day

Despite opposing views on this, I personally believe that this is where the worlds media play a vital role in reminding us of our humanity, of the core morals that should be instilled in every living person lucky enough to be born into this world – those traits of compassion, responsibility and love.

The world is quite frankly impotent at acting on anything that will be classed as potentially “politically damaging” or controversial. Immigration is the biggest divisive issue in all western nations with varying views from “open the doors to all of gods children” to “I’m all right Jack and don’t want anyone messing with my status quo”.

As per my first sentence, capturing raw, devastating, heart-breaking images like that of this young boy are important and should not be censored. We should not allow ourselves to be wrapped in a warm blinkered blanket away from desperate humanitarian issues which are quite literally on our doorstep.

Why are our lives more important than those people fleeing Syria? Because we were fortunate to be born in the countries we live? Does that give us a privilege in the eyes of what is right and wrong to accept that it is inevitable, not our problem and we need to fix the problems in our own country first?

Do we really have problems on this scale? In the UK there are estimated to be around 185,000 homeless people of which almost 8000 at one point during the course of the last year slept rough on the streets for at least 1 night. This is an issue, yes. It needs to be addressed, yes. But, they have access to healthcare, food, charity, shelter, financial assistance. They are not at risk of having their children gunned down in the streets or wifes and daughters taken away to be used as sex slaves.

11 million people have left Syria since the crisis, 50% of whom are unaccounted for, either dead or not registered for asylum / support etc.

What do you think drives a mother and father to leave their entire world, family, home, friends and everything they have ever owned, sell their entire belongings, give the proceeds to people they can’t trust to travel to somewhere where as a minimum they can be safe. What do you think drives them to make the risk judgment to put their own blood onto flimsy rafts knowing there is a high likelihood they will drown?

Because the alternative is orders of magnitude worse.

I don’t expect many to share my views, I won’t be concentrating anymore to this conversation but what I want to express is that yes we do need vivid images of these atrocities. Why? To remind us we are human. To remind us of our moral core believes that are gradually being eroded.

Living the lives we do is not a right, it’s a privilege.