Being someone who is just getting into racing I was wondering about general etiquette before my first couple of outings. Actually turned out that as they have both been point to point style, overtaking wasn’t really the problem that I imagine it is on lap based courses. For context I would say I’m a mid-packer who overtakes and gets overtaken. I have only had one negative experience where a guy didn’t shout anything then clipped my handle bar as he went past. I held on to it then passed him on the next climb and never saw him again. Anyway…

Stumbled across this today and wondered what we all thought about it.

http://www.marathonmtb.com/2013/09/17/overtaking-etiquette-in-mountain-bike-racing-according-to-shippo/

I don’t think that his “cars on roads” example is very good and is actually quite unhelpful as it’s a bit confused and doesn’t really tally for me.

I think it does raise some interesting points though some I agree with and others I don’t.

What say you?

all part of the race really, elites know how to pass its the also rans that struggle & get all uppity, think of it as similar to a referee on a football pitch – a moving obstacle to be treated with respect

I’ll let you know I’m there…I’ll ask you politely…

But it’s a race, and if piss about and hold me up, then I’ll do what I have to do to get by and you can report me if you like.

I’d expect you to do the same to me.

Worry less. Riders who can overtake will shout “rider left/ right” and make it happen. Riders who can’t see a line will shout rider- you can then tell them which side whilst going the other way.

My biggest problem is getting left/ right confused!!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-U1z9nFZgw4[/video]

It’s worth noting that the marathonmtb article is based on Australian riding. They have different calls and etiquette and I think overall the UK is better for both parties.

Personally I will call “rider” if I am approaching and can’t see an obvious place to overtake, it makes yourself known to the rider in front. Then when its safe and there is space, call “on your left/right” and make the pass as efficiently as possible.

What’s the etiquette if you overtake someone who took a chicken line and they catch up with you afterward?

Same if they’re coming past. I’ll take a chicken line if I think my bikes at risk.

I mainly get overtaken. IME, the proper quick riders get past without bother, do it quickly and decisively and are 99% polite.
It’s normally the mid-pack riders who shout nonsense like ‘elite rider’ and expect you to dive out of their way immediately.

I used to get intimidated by it and move out of the way. Now I give as good as I get. Be polite and I will do all I can to get out of your way. Be a dick and don’t expect any favours.

I solve the problem by hitting the back early and staying there.

I really don’t like overtaking- I’m not that fast, I do catch people fairly often but I’m rarely going that much faster than them so there’s no decisive advantage. So that makes me a wee bit tentative about passing and I know from doing it the other way round, that’s quite annoying as a pass-ee!

The way I see it, it is the responsibility of the person behind to manage the pass, and the responsibility of the person in front to assist- with the goal being to get the person behind in front, with the minimum inconvenience to both. But I must admit I do feel like in general the person passing is probably more important- they’ve earned the pass by being faster, and they’re obviously having a better day of it anyway. The faster you are the more important seconds are. So when people catch me I’ll take the hit, if there’s a hit to be taken.

Flaperon – Member

What’s the etiquette if you overtake someone who took a chicken line and they catch up with you afterward?

Same as anyone else who’s passing you.

I remember struggling round the final lap of a solo 24 hour when a team rider came up behind bellowing “on your right” intresting I thought which ways right? Rider bellowed again “on your right”. so I was thinking not a lot of room to my right he’d be best just to ride psst on the left where the room is. “On your **** right you ****”. He then decided just to go past where the room was on the left. I always used on your right to tell people where I was going not to make them move to my favoured side. Anyway this festered for a min or so till I decided very slowly in my tired mind he’d angered me. Took me ages to catch him until I slowly pulled him in to come along side and call him a ****. Not sure he knew who I was but it did make my last lap the fastest of all the laps I did. Still didnt get air out of the bomb hole though and some little mexican fella beat me by about a million laps.

BC Rules
5.7.8 A rider or helper must not use offensive or abusive language during the race, act in an anti-sporting manner, be disrespectful to the officials or ignore the race regulations.
5.7.9 A rider must act in a polite manner at all times and permit any faster rider to overtake without obstructing

essentially it should be a bit of give and take

the rules don’t call for the slower rider to give way, they call for them not to “obstruct”. They don’t need to give up the racing line and ride a more hazardous part of the course. But at the same time it’s unsportsmanlike to not assist the overtake where appropriate

Nor is their any priority for the “race leader”, the person who is 2nd, 3rd, 54th all have the same priority

the problem is always the riders who aren’t quite fast enough, the really fast riders seem to get past politely and efficiently. There is also a sense of “entitlement as they are “fast”, my view is that everyone pays the same entry therefore they all start equal

Personally I will call “rider” if I am approaching and can’t see an obvious place to overtake, it makes yourself known to the rider in front. Then when its safe and there is space, call “on your left/right” and make the pass as efficiently as possible.

add a thanks on the way past and you are there 😀

anagallis_arvensis – Member

I remember struggling round the final lap of a solo 24 hour when a team rider came up behind bellowing “on your right” intresting I thought which ways right? Rider bellowed again “on your right”. so I was thinking not a lot of room to my right he’d be best just to ride psst on the left where the room is. “On your **** right you ****”. He then decided just to go past where the room was on the left. I always used on your right to tell people where I was going not to make them move to my favoured side. Anyway this festered for a min or so till I decided very slowly in my tired mind he’d angered me. Took me ages to catch him until I slowly pulled him in to come along side and call him a ****. Not sure he knew who I was but it did make my last lap the fastest of all the laps I did. Still didnt get air out of the bomb hole though and some little mexican fella beat me by about a million laps.

sounds like Mayhem and a certain Torq rider ❓

I won’t touch a Torq product thanks to a **** in their team in a Mayhem nearly 10 years ago

Reminds me of a race I did. There’s a rock garden section that many folks were walking, but I generally ride. My understanding in race situations is a rider always has priority over those walking/pushing. A person was walking it, and so I called out (politely, I will add) “rider coming through”. The other competitor yelled back to me “can’t you just wait?!?!”

🙂

My only race experience (fun thing with juniors in it too) involved the passers elbows.

I tend to go for shouting “Rider” and then calling “on your left, or on your right, meaning that I’ll be passing on the side I said. If there’s enough space then I’ll go for it. It’s always nice when the person I’m going past moves over. I say thanks and I think we both end up happier for it.

Of course, this isn’t the case at the Megavalanche. If they move over when asked, great. Otherwise, it’s a case of trying to sneak past on a faster line.

Surely you just weave from side to side trying to hold 259th place at all costs? 😕

It depends. I got taken out in qualis so was in a lower race. I think lots of other riders realised that I was quite a lot faster than them so were really helpful. It’s massively appreciate.

I had a similar thing to A_A a couple of years ago at the 24/12.
“Rider on your left”, so I move to the right, “RIDER ON YOUR LEFT”, so I move a bit more. Cue a load of swearing and mumbling, at which point I asked whether he was passing on the left or right?

“Oh yeah, sorry got my left and right mixed up!” 😀

sounds like Mayhem and a certain Torq rider 

was mayhem, could say about Torq other than I liked their products.

Once nearly got into a fight with some bloke on a short course xc race. It was very tight course and I had made a slow start. Overtook up to about 4th and the guy didnt want me to go past. He would sprint like hell on the wider bits then hold me up for the rest of the lap. Ipulled alongside him a few times so he kneew i was quicker and wanting to overtake but a lack of room made it unsafe. In the end i just ploughed up the inside and eased him wide into the bushes. He wasnt happy at the finish!!

I got cut up badly on a downhill bit at Newnham by the little poser who wears his sisters jeans and rides for Mondraker .Not a word of warning as he passed a couple of us and nearly took us off our bikes

Good thread…
It’s been a while since i raced, it’s been even longer since i overtook anyone, especially on a techincal section.

However… i’m hoping to change that in a few weeks…

Usually it was me catching someone, they’d hear me panting like a lunatic behind them and say “Do you want to pass”

which was usually followed by “no, i’ve just killed myself catching you..i’ll sit here for a little while and see what happens”

Usually it was me catching someone, they’d hear me panting like a lunatic behind them and say “Do you want to pass”

which was usually followed by “no, i’ve just killed myself catching you..i’ll sit here for a little while and see what happens”

That sounds exactly like what I was doing in my last 12h race!
Seemed to work though 😀

I raced 4x for years, we don’t ask just force the issue or push the rider over the berm. Try that at the Xc race, works everything and you’ll have the added advantage of them not expecting it. Ok maybe ask once, then make a move.

Overtook up to about 4th and the guy didnt want me to go past. He would sprint like hell on the wider bits then hold me up for the rest of the lap

That’s racing isn’t it? I don’t think you can expect a person to surrender when racing for position.

Indeed it just surprised me that when I “made room” he got all fighty after the race.. I was actually enjoying “the racing”.

Sometimes its much easier for both if the slower rider works out the overtake.

Faster rider should always be on the look out for a flick of the elbow and come through accordingly.

Overtook up to about 4th and the guy didnt want me to go past. He would sprint like hell on the wider bits then hold me up for the rest of the lap.

That is different to overtaking a slower/lapped rider though, since you are racing for 4th place.
It could even be called tactics, if you know you are slower on singletrack why not do everything you can to stay ahead on wider sections? Frustrating as hell for the riding behind, but thats racing!

Haha hopkins folks have tried tht with me in the past – they always come off worst.

First 24/12 a rider tried it forcin me towards a tree so i just turned in and leant on him till he fell down the hill.

He had been shoutin elite rider at me as he rode up behind me didnt call a side because there was no room – just tried to barge me off the single track into the trees

If your on here matey – hope you learnt from that. Although the more i read the more i wonder if its the team mantra.

Oh and fwiw – id never heard the call “elite rider” till i came to england.

Funny how when a truely fast rider passes you(mtbmatt- raddogonair etc) – its like an enigma – you just feel a strange presence in your vacinity – a bit of tire noise – and boom hes acceleratig away from you. No fuss at all.

Usually it was me catching someone, they’d hear me panting like a lunatic behind them and say “Do you want to pass”
which was usually followed by “no, I’ve just killed myself catching you..i’ll sit here for a little while and see what happens”

Sounds familiar + if I heard someone catching me fast I’d make every effort to keep out of their way, even stopping if necessary.

I’m mid pack on the first lap a good day.

XC races tend to have the best overtaking. The guys that are lapping you are generally much better riders so they are gone in a flash and are polite 99% of the time.

Endurance races are more of a mixed bag.

My favourite was the guy at 10UTB who shouted at me warning me not to get too close as he was planning on walking down the next muddy bit!

I had these overtaking things on my mind since recently considering Oktoberfest at Ashton Court… looking at the trails on Youtube it would appear there is a reasonable amount of singletrack and I was wondering how “racing” works in practice on such trails?

I assumed you mind you own business (being aware of what is going on around you of course) until someone shouts they want to pass on one side or another and when there is room you move over the other side. I would also assume the top guys won’t generally give a slower rider too much bother as they have the skill/ speed/ experience to pass safely. Does it work like this in reality? From the comments here it would seem polite communication from both riders is key

Would Ashton Court and Oktoberfest be a painful first introduction to racing?

you just feel a strange presence in your vacinity – a bit of tire noise – and boom hes acceleratig away from you. No fuss at all.

Even more so when the lady elites come past. And I mean lady, because they behave like them in the main. Without testosterone, and therefore unlikely to actually square up to you, it’s ‘please can I’ followed a whiff of fairy sparkles and perfume, and they’re disappearing into the middle distance. A distinctly pleasurable experience.

XC it was never much bother.

DH and enduro is/was a problem If i got seeded badly. If you’ve been caught get out the f’ing way. You arent going to win so don’t screw up the persons behind chances of a decent result. Dont look for somewhere suitable, just get off the track.

DH and enduro is/was a problem If i got seeded badly. If you’ve been caught get out the f’ing way. You arent going to win so don’t screw up the persons behind chances of a decent result. Dont look for somewhere suitable, just get off the track.

Tough luck for having a crap seeding, surely?
You wouldn’t find F1 drivers letting Vettel pass if he had a bad qualifying run, so why would another sport be different?

Racing is silly. Don’t do it.

Tough luck for having a crap seeding, surely?
You wouldn’t find F1 drivers letting Vettel pass if he had a bad qualifying run, so why would another sport be different?

Its the opposite in DH though: the better you do in qualifying the later in the day you start your race run(s). In fact its run more like a time trial not a ‘mass start, first across the line’ race, but arguably harder to pass the slower riders you are timetrialling against than on a road. So theory/likelihood goes that the rider behind you is likely to be a little bit quicker than you, unless that is they are so quick they catch you up o the first half of the course and then complete the second half muh0h slower than their practice or seeding runs cos you are holding them up. You could run dh races the opposite way round but then the hotseat wouldn’t change after the first three people got down, and half the spectators would lose interest…

I only “race” once a year at Dyfi. Usuully start from the back as I’m disorgainsed, so rarely have to worry about being overtaken. When I catch someone on a descent, I’ll wait until there’s an obvious line to the side, big enough to squeeze through given the differnence in speed, and shout “on your right/left”. 99.9% of the time, the rider in front moves to the correct side and slows a bit, and its all done. And I say “thankyou”
If I catch someone on one of the techy climbs, I’ll shout well in advance “coming past when I can” to give them a chance to get to a clear spot and let me pass. Again, never had a problem.

The only times I’ve got held up is when people are walking, either up or down (mincers). As soon as their feet touch the floor, they go deaf and decide to walk ont he smoothest line. The feckers.