I'm trying to think up other alternative frames in the same mould as:

Dialled Bikes Alpine
Cotic BFe
Evil Sovereign
Sanderson Blitz

Bascially, I'm after a frame:
– £350 max
– new or secondhand (e.g. Sovereign is well out of my budget if new)
– preferably steel
– relatively relaxed geometry
– 140mm or so fork suitable
– for a bit of harder riding than normal XC, and a bit of jumping use (basically something I can use as an alternative to my 6" travel full-susser when the weather's really crap).

I very much like the look of the Sanderson but want to ensure I'm not missing some obvious alternatives. Suggestions/comments welcomed.

Cheers

DMR Trailstar!

Sanderson! i want to see one built up…

i've got a Breath. the ride and finish are both awesome….

I'm putting my vote in for a Sovereign. Best bike ever ever.

Ragley blue Pig would fit your needs and looks good for the money.

The alpine is good for dh type stuff and is pretty stable and feels good with long travel forks. The back end is quite long and the bb is quite high and it doesnt feel as manouverable as a cotic.

The cotic is maybe more what your after, feels pretty manouverable for xc and jump type stuff, I think it rides good with 120mm forks, maybe not quite as good as an alpine for full on dh stuff.

Dunno about the other two, but a trailstar is good for jumps n that, thats what i used mine for. A bit short for xc unless your small

2nd hand cove stiffee?….ive got a sovreign and a stiffee in but both new…soz!

456? less than half the price of most of those and just aboout right at 140mm, spend the leftovers on kit 🙂 i know its not the same mould but still…

Right, so my list's expanded to:
Dialled Bikes Alpine
Cotic BFe
Evil Sovereign
Sanderson Blitz
DMR Trailstar (although probably a bit short)
Ragley Blue Pig
Cove Stiffee

I've already discounted a 456 from the list after test riding a mates one. I need to do a bit of research into geometry of the others after finding out info on the Sanderson yesterday (67deg head, 70deg seat, 23.3" effective top tube for the 18"). Don't mind going second hand either…

How was your mates 456 built up – as with most long travel HT's this has quite an important bearing on 'feel'.

For example, 10mm shorter/longer on a stem has quite an affect – I tried 100mm then 80mm (and also 50mm while at Chicksands) – before settling on 90mm.

b r, can't remember how it was built to be honest, but I'm aware bar height and stem length make quite a difference to the feel on a long-forked hardtail. I daresay it could be made to feel better, but I just preferred the ride of my current bike (Genesis Altitude) and also a mates Genesis Abyss (which is more of a comparison geometry wise).

Any other frames I'm missing from this list?

I've got a 456 purchased for pretty much the same reasons as you, does the job nicely. Although I do hanker after a BFe..

Mine has:
fox vanilla 140 32mm forks.
40mm stem
700mm wide bars
thomson elite seatpost
raceface evolve cranks triple ring
xt shifters/derailers
Hope pro2 on wtb speedisc rims
hangerbanger
hope headset
avid juicy 5

about 32 lbs, climbs jumps descends ..

Got a small 2nd hand bfe frame for sale if interested? £220 with a fsa headset. Email stiffee_dave at hotmail dot com if you want pics or are interested. Handles 160mm forks no problems (had 36's on it).

I had on of the original Souls (no.31, check me… ahem.) and I've just gone back to one after a PA and an Inbred. I have no idea why I ever bought anything else. It is by far the 'most fun' hardtail I've ever ridden. Blinding downhill with 140mm forks, probably a better allround ride with 120s. I wanted a Bfe, but the PA died and Cy didn't have any. Now I'm getting tempted to get one as well and build it up for DH.

Having said that, an 18 inch trailstar is very similar numbers-wise and friend's 16" DMRs feel awesome. It was only the weight and the fact that they don't come in orange that put me off.

For me, the Alpine and the Stiffee are too high, the Ragley far too slack and the Evil too pricey. No idea about the sanderson.

Cotics are great, and the DMR looks ace too, if a little heavy. They're both nice and low, decent lengths and have nice HAs for allround sillyness.

allthegearandnoidea – Member

Got a small 2nd hand bfe frame for sale if interested? £220 with a fsa headset. Email stiffee_dave at hotmail dot com if you want pics or are interested. Handles 160mm forks no problems (had 36's on it).

YGM if A11y doenst want..

blatent sale post…. apologies.

Long black sov for sale… 853 version in a 'used' condition, nothing serious though!

email me if interested….

If I was choosing off that list I'd go for a bfe.

Chameleon.

Brown – Member
….. the PA died …..

When, where, how?

Mike – had a bit of a crack appearing in the seat tube, at the bottom of the seat post slot. Not sure how, as I had about 150mm of post in there (I had ridden the bike a LOT though). Anyway, I got that welded up, but then I got a seatpost terminally stuck in it and the crack re-opened when I was trying to free it. Going to try to soak it in caustic soda to get the post out and then weld it up again, as I've had a serious amount of fun on that frame.

Thanks for the info, Brown.

Even though it's not a warranty claim, if you find it's beyond repair next time, drop me an e-mail and we can probably work something out with regard to a replacement.

what about the copy of the copy of the Sovreign…the Alptitude 😆

I needed a bike urgently WEEK Before Xmas, saw one of these in the shop and it ticked all the boxes.

My PA felt bombproof and,er, planted.

And I still have my 16in (and I'm 6ft) Trailstar which has the shortest chainstays in the free world. Fantastic bike for little money. I've ridden a bit of XC on it, it's not ideal but can be done. But for messing about and jumping over things, it's brilliant!

But Nick makes a good call on the Chameleon. Big old box stays out back tho!

I have an Evil sov and its awesome , yes it's expensive but so much fun and there's not many about on the trail 🙂 Mine is a medium and with the seatpost dropped it's like a little 4X bike to me the frame is so compact and chuckable , only problem I had was the paint job, it's shocking! mines being resprayed as we speak so can't wait to get back on it again !!! I did have a cove stiffee but found it a little to harsh at the rear 🙁

toys19 – Member

allthegearandnoidea – Member

Got a small 2nd hand bfe frame for sale if interested? £220 with a fsa headset. Email stiffee_dave at hotmail dot com if you want pics or are interested. Handles 160mm forks no problems (had 36's on it).

YGM if A11y doenst want..

toys19, go ahead – small would be too small for me (I'm a medium bordering on a large size on most of them).

To be honest, I think I'm sold on the BFe. I owned an original Soul a few years ago, only selling it as it felt too long for me despite a short stem. A return to a Cotic would be nice.

I'm also tempted by an Alpine after owning a Love/Hate for a couple of years and loving it, but the BFe "does" more for me.

The Sanderson is as yet untested and it's a significant sum of money to drop without hearing any endorsements of it. Test ride not possible either. It comes in at £350 though so only fractionally cheaper than the BFe, which I'd rather have for the extra £20.

An Alptitude is a natural contender too, as the frame I'll be replacing is a Genesis Altitude and it's a superb frame IMO. I'm certainly a fan of the Genesis brand having ridden a mates Abyss too and owning a Vapour CX.

Stiffee and Chameleon both discounted, partly for cost but partly for reports I've heard about rear end harshness. I still hope to be able to ride whatever frame I decide on all day at a push (although I have another bike more suited to that role anyway).

I've got time to think about it anyway as BFe's aren't due into the UK for another few weeks yet anyway :-(. Plus, to confuse me further, I had a great ride on my Altitude last night which is making me question why I want to change it at all…

Cant go wrong with a PA…get the new 753.

Add Genesis Alpitude to your list. Great fun bike/frame. Frame is about £350 new IIRC and uses 853 tubing. Don't be tempted to get all XC with the sizing though – the 16 inch is perfect for me and I'm a smidge under 5 foot 11.

ally, i.ll get a blitz built up for you as soon as i can.

Im loving the look of the BFe and am waiting for my DMR Switchback to break and then I might get one. Cant really justify it while the DMR is running fine but its only a matter of time.

Another recommendation for a chameleon. I have a 2005 with the horizontal dropouts. I have never noticed it being harsh, no more so than my wife’s rock lobster. I run it with wide tyres and a thomson post. I do have about 400mm of post sticking out so that might give it a bit more flex. I ride it all day, well up to 5 hrs and on multi day trips. The chameleon frame is probably a lb or so lighter as well so that might make difference for all day rides.

Whilst the subject of these two is being discussed, Anybody know the difference in BB height between the BFe and Alpine for a given fork length?

Tried to work it out from the tinterweb but can't seem to nail it down.

The Cotic site quotes 12.25" for a 130mm fork sagged 40mm and the DB site 12.76" but Mike doesn't quote what fork length it's based on.