Anyone else find the 5 understeers?

Alternativley is it the rider, set up, terrain.

was out on altura recently and at low speeds uphill on corners, over rock and down hill at speed on hitting roots/rocks the front just seems to want to run wide ro wash out all together.

riderweight 9 1/2 stone
front shock fox float rlc32 (fully open 4 clicks back from fastest rebound, sag 20%)
rear rp32
tyres- tubed kenda nevegal 35psi

?too much tyre pressure or rebound. Or is Whinlatter just very slippy?

Advice from handling guru's welcolme.

Rider weight too far back?

possible, had thought that. trouble is a slippy front end doesn't inspire yo to lean over it.

I would take the rebound on the forks all way off to minimal rebound damping (towards -) then dial them back 2 clicks. the floats are very reboundy ive got some too. also how high are your bars? try shuffling the stem stackers around to lower your stem towards your top tube. you will notice a difference there too. if that does not do the trick try being a bit more in the attack position when descending and further over the nose of the saddle when climbing. a good trick when climbing steep switchbacks is to purposefully drop the inside elbow of the corner your negotiating. that will swing the bars round steadily and stop any wandering. trust me it works!
good luck

When I rode Whinlatter this summer on my 5, I had the same sort of problem downhill at speed, running wide etc, but later realised I still had by tires at 50psi after cycling hardknott pass the day before! So I put it down to that.

I do sometimes get this feeling at other times too, on local trials that I ride all the time, so I'm thinking that (for me anyway) it's my riding, specifically not committing to corners enough and not leaning the bike enough. General need for me to MTFU is these situations I think 😉

cheers for advice, i'm 4 back from no damping on rebound (the range is 14 clicks afaik). I had wondered if i was underdamped and on recoli the front end was loosing traction. Got 3.5-4cm of spacers below the steerer.

Stem too long maybe???

I'd be very surprised if the bike was at fault. By any chance are you running a sticky compound rear tire and a normal front?

I find certain tyres quite washy, have settled on a Blue Groove 2.35.

35psi is a lot for your weight, I sometimes run 28 psi on the front tubed at 11.5 stone. I'd try that first…

Rebound damping should be a nice controlled return slightly slower than compression (in my very crudely put opinion, I'm often informed I'm wrong but I ride well enough so :-P)

Throw Nevegals in the bin.

Buy real tyres.

End of problem.

Understeer? It's not a bloody car 😆

you want weight on the tyre to make it grip, the logical conclusion to that though is iftheres no weight you weelie and therefore no grip.

Also 20% sag is quite hard, when your stood neutraly on the bike (elbows out, bum hovering over seat) the forks should be 33% into the stroke.

Maybe add some compression damping to give you more reason to lean on the fork through corners (without it diveing).

User error? 😉

Also, cornering with cranks level or outside foot down?

Try to get more body weight inside of the centre line

back end could be too soft?

I fixed the understeer on my cove HJ with a shorter stem – went from 110 down to 70 – made a huge difference

Got 3.5-4cm of spacers below the steerer.

Thats quite a lot, maybe too much…

You dont weigh too much at 9 1/2 stone, and you dont mention the rear sus setting, that will affect your steering loads if its not right, as your light try setting the sag at less than reccomended to keep the back up a bit higher in the stroke.

same tyres front and back.
stem 10cm (middle of steerer to middle of bar)
cornering? i guess a combo of styles re cranks, will have to pay more attention.

I only ever seem to notice it when i do whinlatter. did ullswater lakeshore on Tues and no probs noted..

I suspect tyres too hard, not enough sag on front forks and user error…i'm too used to riding hardtails and addicted to that hard thrashy feel i think

The rear is rp23 with more sag, at least 25-30%. did notice it breaking away a bit today whilst riding with it open/on- propedal is set to 3 but that only comes into it when the shock is off?

As has been said you might be too far off the back and need to bring your weight forward and push the front end into corners more, definatley should have outside foot down pushing into corner.

Maxxis high roller / minion super tacky 2.35 on front may help too

I'm surprised you can steer at all with a 100mm stem on it, the 5 now has a pretty slack head angle, its not an XC race bike. I run a 65mm stem on mine, its ace.

i'm too used to riding hardtails and addicted to that hard thrashy feel i think

maybe you're just going faster than you think?

I'd say entirely down to stem length and tyre pressure.
I'm 11.5st and run my Conti Vertical pros at a tad under 30psi, rarely does the bike not do what it should.
80mm stem too, the Five is quite a long bike compared to other full sussers in it's category – shorten up your cockpit, you'll find weight distribution is much better and it'll handle a dream.

hmm the stem thats on it is from the factory- part of the thompson option.
I suspect i am going quick (if it's possible to be objective about yourself).

less pressure, more sag, MTFU and get over the bars..

(and maybe a full face helmet just in case)

And thanks for all the advice. may try to borrow a shorter stem once i've tried the easy stuff.

Funniest thread I have read on singletrack for ages.

I run a 60mm too, 40mm was fun but a 'mare in the climbs…

I am 5'10 on a 18" five and run it with an inline seatpost 50 mm stem , 1 x 5mm spacer and Pikes, and very low rise bars and even that set up occasionally seems a little difficult to get weight over the front end enough, so I suspect if you have 3-4 spacers it would make it quite difficult.

.

'tis probably a 90mm stem if came with bike, which sould be fine I'd suggest a bit less pressure in fork and shock, lots of rebound damping on shcok, as little as you can get away with on fork. Wht pressures you running in the suspension ?

Bike should be fine. Understeer is more likely tyres or weight distribution than anything else. I just moved my weight back for really twisty singletrack because pedalling through it sat where I was I got my weight to far over the front. I think in a very tight corner you want your weight back, but for high speed wide corners you want it forward.

FWIW 5'11 here and a 90mm stem, saddle rails as far back as they will go almost,and it's dialled 🙂 Lots of moving about on the bike though to get it through the windy stuff I am currently riding 🙂

I got exactly the same result whilst in Wales at the w/e, although I'd describe it as "oversteer" – front wheel suddenly twitching toward the outside of the bend on a fast downhill…

Anyways, I put it down to the 100mm stem that I'd transferred from the previous frame so I've changed to 90mm. I'm running 130mm forks on my "5" frame. I'll report back after the next outing.

although I'd describe it as "oversteer"

How is that oversteer? I know everyone is making fun of the "understeer" reference but I can at least see what he means. If a car understeers the wheel turns but the vehicle makes it's way to the outside of the bend.

Good point.

It's a position thing.

You need to get low, weight the front wheel and lean the bike in whilst keeping your body upright.

Look at the next significant point on the trail beyond the turn.

Outer foot down on the pedal.

Chose which wheel you'd prefer to slide: front or back. I'd go for back! Thyself the one which will see less of my weight on it.

To avoid going over bars point your toes skywards.

Have a go and let me know.

"surprised you can steer at all with a 100mm stem on it, the 5 now has a pretty slack head angle, its not an XC race bike. I run a 65mm stem on mine"

Surely a shorter stem would put even less weight onto the front wheel?
Aren't stems on XC race bikes more like 120mm?

"Got 3.5-4cm of spacers below the steerer.
Thats quite a lot, maybe too much… "
Unless he's tall(ish)?

3cm of spacers and a 8.5cm stem on measuring. Not sure of pressures tbh, just set up for sag(and obv not enough on front)

oh and 18" frame and 174cm height.

I will lower tyre pressure and increase fork sag see how that goes, then experiment a bit more on the spacers. It does feel like the front is too tall and i can't control what it's doing at times. less spacers i think.

WRT position, thinking about it i tend to let my weight slip back on fast sweeping bends, prob a bad habit more noticeable when i hit rock. So much as i hate to admit it, at times a lazy riding style is prob as much to blame as the other things. I think with my hard tail- 19" orange E8 with 80mm rebas and shorter stem i'm forced forward over the bars.

Also too busy trying to just get out and ride it as much as possible and not enough time playing with he set up.

Thanks all.

When you steer on sharper bends (ie ones that need the bars turning) the front wheel is generating a sideways force which, when viewed from above is rotating the bike around a pivot point at the back wheel. If your weight is further back then much less of this sideways force is required to rotate you and the bike.

I figured this out when riding Swinley on my XC race bike. The only way to get through the twisty bits quickly was to hang my arse over the saddle. Otherwise it was just too difficult to go fast. My weight was over the front but also to one side as I was leaning, and this tended to push the front wheel outwards.

So try moving the saddle back and/or a shorter stem. Just try it 🙂

Forget the bike setup, it's the tyres and the place.

Both of my bikes with Nevegals were awful at Whinlatter, shocking both front and rear. No traction on the berms, all over the shop on the downs like someone had oiled the trail.

Even on the flat when trying to corner, any amount of lean caused the bike to slip away. Tried reducing the pressure down to 25 PSI and they were still useless. Bonty Mud X = ACE!

The Nevgals are known to be a rear tyre set with a
Blue groove up front.
Depending on terrain if hard packed try a Maxxis Minion Tacky 42a
on the front.
Fork setting I just use Sag rather than weight. You could use Fox recomended setting and then go from there
The stem I have is a sunline 65 mm zero rise The reason for zero rise
is the 160mm fork up front.
Washing out on the corners, you should have weight over front of wheel
and on the DownHills have you got your weight to far back and arms
fully stretched, then your front will wonder and you wont be or feel
in control.
Tyres I am 13 stone and they have 35 psi front and back

Washing out on the corners, you should have weight over front of wheel

Not true on twisty singletrack, see above.

No one has mentioned your handlebar to seat level yet.