anagallis_arvensis – Member

"I have to say I fail to see how 120mph can be done safely except on maybe a very empty motorway. "

And of course your judgement is superior to the police rider who was actually there at the time.

Plus a very empty motorway is when you see 172mph on your speedo.

Alledgedly.

my unkle was killed when a driver pulled out from a junction, ended his life and ruined the lives of his loving wife and three kids.

I'm rather drawn to getting some kind of rat bike/streetfighter/cafe racer type thing though.

aka – I did a Police driving course at Portishead (A&S Police HQ) after my IAM test. I had a temp driving job (thanks partly to having an IAM pass) and as part of it I had to take and pass a Police test. It was the most fun I've had in a car I reckon – the instructor was inspirationally good and observant and we learned tonnes of stuff. The observed run was nerve racking but the rest was a hoot. Don't know what level I officially achieved but got decent marks and learned loads of stuff that even a serious trackday or "performance" course won't even touch.

BenjiM – Member

My girlfriends next door neighbor was killed yesterday in a motorbike accident. He left behind 3 young girls and a wife. He was a very successful electrician just about to move to a bigger house too. Such a huge shame, really nice fella too. He's from Longridge near Preston.

I've just heard via another source that the Longridge bloke's accident was a head-to-head between two bikes near Hawes, so I think its a safe bet you were talking about the same tragedy BenjiM.
Just goes to show how widely a tragedy like this effects so many, in one way or another.

The first properly sunny weekend of the year is often a nightmare for motorbike accidents.

I used to be a year round biker but these days do much less mileage and only did my first proper ride of the year a couple of weeks back, although in my case that was a 500 mile day with some sleet and hail rather than a fast blast! On my CBF or XBR I'm fine (and take it pretty easy anyway) but it'll be a while before I take the sports bike out.

aka_Gilo, you seem to need to do a bit of growing up with regards speeding on public roads. What would happen if say a bird or a rabbit appeared on the road and you hit it at 120mph? You'd probably be dead. How good are you at spotting diesel, pot holes or patches of gravel at 120mph? I'll be not very good – hit any of that lot and you will end up dead. You dont tend to get any of them on race tracks, everyone tends to be going the same way and there is immediate life support on hand too.

The copper if caught doing that now would probably face prison too.

Surf-Mat – Member
aka – I did a Police driving course at Portishead (A&S Police HQ) after my IAM test. I had a temp driving job (thanks partly to having an IAM pass) and as part of it I had to take and pass a Police test. It was the most fun I've had in a car I reckon – the instructor was inspirationally good and observant and we learned tonnes of stuff. The observed run was nerve racking but the rest was a hoot. Don't know what level I officially achieved but got decent marks and learned loads of stuff that even a serious trackday or "performance" course won't even touch.

Pleased to hear it 😉 So did this 'job' involve driving on b&t's?

People understimate how stable bikes are at speed. Hitting a rabbit or bird at 120mph is very unlikely to have you off, as is hitting patches of gravel or diesel if upright. Potholes big enough to be a problem can be spotted a long way off. I've done close to 100mph on very bumpy fireroads and Landrover tracks (while racing!) and it's not been any problem.

Not that I'm advocating those sorts of speeds on the road, just mentioning that you'd be surprised how stable bikes are when at speed.

Obi – thanks for your concern but I've been around long enough to make informed decisions as to how I ride.

+ what epicsteve said – spot on.

People understimate how stable bikes are at speed. Hitting a rabbit or bird at 120mph is very unlikely to have you off, as is hitting patches of gravel or diesel if upright. Potholes big enough to be a problem can be spotted a long way off. I've done close to 100mph on very bumpy fireroads and Landrover tracks (while racing!) and it's not been any problem.

anyone see that tv programme with the biker with a face full of pheasant? Not pleasant.

Surf-Mat – that's where I did my riding course. Great bunch of chaps there, and really superb riders /drivers. You really do learn so much from them.

normally i wouldn't get involved in a thread like this yet i feel compelled by the comments of aka_Gilo.

firstly the excessive speeding that you seem so proud of is wrong either in a car or on a bike. the safety of it has **** all to do with your perceived ability. you are not the only road user. how do you account for other peoples actions? nobody expects the approaching car/motorbike to be doing 120mph – have you seen what a crash looks like at this speed? i suggest you look at this…

secondly, do you realise how little respect you have for other road users (and their families). its not just yourself you put at risk. take that picture for example, the car pulled out of a junction near a bend the bike was doing the sort of speed you deem acceptable, the rider could not see the car until it was too late and now 3 people are dead.

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

i very much doubt this post will have an affect on you but it's worth a try.

aka-Gilo – you are mistaken in your assumption that I am concerned for your well being. All I care about is my own personal safety and that of my friends and family. You go and kill yourself if you want, but please try not to take anyone else out with you.

You have proven my point about the rider course that you went on being shit too. Motor skills are easy to learn and to teach. It's the cognitive ones that are way more important though.

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

Do they allow sightseers in hospitals these days ?

That accident is awful.

Andy – not full on B&Ts, just a smartish semi cop uniform. I ferried forensics to ahem… you know where and often carried a LOT of drugs and weapons!

i strongly recommend that you take a trip to your local A&E to see what excessive speed (car or motorbike) does to people and there families.

It doesn't have to be excessive speed either. The NCAP tests are carried out at a relatively low speed to get their results. Up the speed by just 10mph and you'd see dramatic differences.

Get upto a legal NSL or 70mph and you could see horrific consequences from a legal driver.

I think NCAP offers a false sense of security to most drivers.

And of course your judgement is superior to the police rider who was actually there at the time.

doesnt matter about my judgement or the coppers what matters is what other road users expect.

anagallis_arvensis wrote,

"doesnt matter about my judgement or the coppers what matters is what other road users expect. "

And again, huge assumptions that there were other road users, or that their expectations were relevant- that sort of speed through junctions etc would pretty much always be reckless but if other road users aren't making decisions based on your speed, it doesn't matter what they expect. So either you believe that both riders in this situation, including the hugely trained police rider, were reckless idiots or you believe that just maybe, they'd taken into account the road and the conditions and the level of traffic and made a decision based on that.

he does mention that people were flashing him so assume that means cars were about.

So either you believe that both riders in this situation, including the hugely trained police rider, were reckless idiots or you believe that just maybe, they'd taken into account the road and the conditions and the level of traffic and made a decision based on that.

No doubt they were assessing risk and decided it was worth it for their fun, but had I been around they hadnt asked me if I wanted my risk levels increased for their fun. Even if the risk to others was only raised slightly I dont believe they have the right to take that decision. 120mph on a road with a 60 or 70 mph limit increases risk for all.

I'm gonna stick my oar in here. I regularly see idiots tearing around some of the country roads in N.Wilts, a particular choice being the A4361 North from Avebury to Wroughton. It's a nice bit of road, fairly twisty, lots of dips and rises with a long stretch which is fairly fast but with limited visibility in lots of places. Bikers love it, especially on sunny Sunday afternoons. Last Sunday on a sharp r/hand bend at Berwick Bassett a CBR600 travelling south towards Avebury lost control on one of the bends and skidded into the path of a Honda Pan-European going north. The CBR rider was airlifted to Frenchay in Bristol, the other rider, a 60yo from Calne was killed at the scene. I know quite a few bikers, and I know for a fact how easy it is to have a serious accident at quite low speed on a public road, let alone at high speed, especially when there are other vehicles in close proximity. Saying that you take risks on a cycle is disingenuous, you're not talking about a 4-500lb bike with another 200lb of rider on board travelling at 80+ mph. A friend travelling home from work one sunny afternoon on his Suzuki 600 v-twin. On a slight bend the bike just went out chucking him across the road. The two week old bike was trashed, as was his helmet, his armoured nylon jacket had holes worn through between the armour down to the skin. One of the first on the scene was a police bike rider just on his way to work. He investigated the accident scene and said that the only reason he could pin it on was a few patches of Tarmac with the chippings worn away on the crown of the road. The rider was doing no more than 40mph, and the cop said it could just as easily been him, as he rode it most days. Another bad one involved a bike following several cars when one turned left. The biker didn't notice the brake lights due to low bright sun directly behind reflecting off the tail lights until the last second and tried to manouver around the car, but clipped a tail light pitching him sideways off the bike. That would have been fine but for the uninsured Alfa Romeo driver coming the other way who didn't react in time and hit the rider at about 50mph. The rider suffered a smashed shoulder, head injuries, collapsed lung and broken ribs, several fractured vertebra in his neck and back. He stopped breathing at the scene, only surviving because his partner, who's an anaesthetist, got his breathing going again; she was following on her bike. At Frenchay Hospital they were debating taking his right arm off due to the damage to the blood supply but transplanted a section of vessel from his leg and saved it. He is now back at work, and riding his other bike, amazingly, (his Bandit 1200 was written off). He was travelling at approx. 20mph when the accident happened, so another ten on top could have been the decider. It could be argued that more speed would have made the bike more manouverable, he had luggage bags on, heading down to Spain for a couple of weeks riding with a friend and his now wife. I know this is a lengthy post, but I'm trying to show that bad accidents happen at stupidly slow speed, so ragging it around narrow country roads with uncertain sightlines, equally uncertain surfaces and, at this time of year, loads of grockles taking their families out on roads they're unfamiliar with is likely to be a bad combination. The rider who got hit by the Alpha got married last Saturday in his leathers and had a bike convoy to their blessing ceremony at the bike clubhouse at Kemble, the priest being a Harley riding RAF clergyman. A terrific day was had, that didn't look like it could ever happen last June.

Countzero
I ride the A4361 on my road bike most weeks. There is nothing more pant wettingly scary then the sound of some knobend coming round one of those bends doing a ton and narrowly avoiding me. I read of that crash in the Adver last night, and sadly all I could think was thank **** it wasn't me. Two mates from Lyneham are dead now after low speed accidents. Both of them survived horrendous high speed crashes, and Neil usd to love coming into the pub with his jaw wired..again. I shit myself for the day my son comes home with his first moped.

I ride bikes all year in all weathers and find summer bikers scary. Generally I avoid riding on weekends in good weather due to it. I myself cannot be called innocent of riding fast but there is a big difference between a regular rider riding at high speed feeling calm and knowing how to handle the bike on bad roads verses the summer warrior riding at the same speed but buzzing on the thrill/adrenaline without the practise to back up their jerky reactions.

Motorbikes can be ridden at speeds on a road with a good safety margin that a car driver will struggle to understand, but if the rider makes a poor reaction if it goes wrong, it will go very wrong.

This bollocks about car drivers not understanding the safety margins that bikers have travelling at high speed is utter bollocks. Not only that, it is insulting and ignorant bollocks. I have ridden a few fast bikes at obscene speeds on roads and there is very very little safety margin and i have good motorbike handling skill to back it up.

This bollocks about car drivers not understanding the safety margins that bikers have travelling at high speed is utter bollocks. Not only that, it is insulting and ignorant bollocks.

A good bike has far better handling and safety margin than someone trying to rag their average family car or hatchback on their local country lanes.

Obi – if you had actually got the skills to ride a bike you would know the safety margins are huge. Modern motorcycles are so so good.

Got a full licence have you? What bikes have you owned? It takes many tens on thousands of miles to develop the skills to ride a bike properly. Car driving skills do not transfer well

The bikes may be good, but there are a hell of a lot of people going around at Carl Fogarty speeds without 1% of Carl Fogarty's skills.

TJ – Yes. GSXR750, ZX6R and something completely different in a Virago 1100.

Owned them OBI or had a shot on a mates? How many years riding you done?

Agreed that there are people riding the bikes without the skills – and that is a dangerous combo for sure.

Owned them. And a few years on an off. Much prefer a high powered car that handles well. Taken both on to tracks and car wins hands down for me.

People need to find the limits of their vehicle, only then can they know what the safety margins are and you can only do that on a track. Once you do that you will never want to go like the bars of hell on a road again.

Best advice I had about driving was to expect to meet yourself coming the other way.

I love speed and I love going stupidly fast.

I don't do it as I don't want to cause injury or death to anyone else.
(accidents still happen but better chances at low speed)

Not buying a motorbike after reading this thread.

Ability-we all have ability, just take it to the race track and not on the bloody road. Stop being selfish and not thinking of others.

Feel for the OP – witnessing these sorts of incidents can really mess with your head for a time.
Have to admit that I've occassionally ridden like a t**t and been lucky enough to avoid any bad accidents, also avoided a large number of incidents involving cars being driven awfully too, seems to me like we need some danger in our otherwise regimented & safe as houses lifestyle to keep us ticking – or not as the case may be.
I for one will be enjoying a Ron Haslam race day at Silverstone soon where I can ring the neck out of Mr Honda's CBR600RR for the morning 😀

So in summary there are good bike riders and bad bike riders. ( Insert also car drivers/cyclists/van drivers.)

So in summary there are good bike riders and bad bike riders but the relative cheapness and high performance of bikes means that lots of people ride them like absolute nobbers, (which is a big part of their appeal in the first place for many people.)

Fixed it for you.

Hitting a rabbit or bird at 120mph is very unlikely to have you off,

I once hit a phesant at about 85mph, on a sweeping bend. I never really felt it but arrived at work covered with blood and guts, with a cracked fairing!

lobby dosser ends thread! 😀

And PeterPoddy – as I said before and you ignored – you clearly ride your motorbike beyond your abilities and shouldn't be on the road.

I probably just didn't see it!

a) Well, no I clearly don't
b) Pray tell, that are my abilities exactly? (For the record I've passed my IAM bike test)

It's a bike. It has 2 wheels. Somtimes you fall of them, it's a fact of life! 🙂 It's the same for all bikes. I imagine everyone on STW has crashed at some point. I've never had a crash whilst going fast (Same as in a car) and I don't think 4 minor crashes in 100,000+ miles on bikes is too bad. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, I crash, swear a bit, and carry on. 🙂

I know I can't get my knee down, (I think I'm too short and not supple enough 🙁 ) so I amuse myself by scraping the footpegs. I know when I'm having a bad day and just slow down and cruise. I prefer my bikes standard and nice and quiet so I can enjoy myself without attracting the wrong sort of attention from afar (Plus I find the noise as annying as most other people) I won't buy a sportsbike because I know I'd be doing 170mph as soon as it was quiet. I tend to practice braking on a quiet road every now and then, and I can't remember when I last had a close call.
I dunno if I'm any good in the grand scheme of things, but one thing I am is safe, and the other thing I am is aware of what I'm capable of. 🙂
Of course there's going to be a chorus of 'speed isn't safe', 'speed kills' at that, with me having admitted to maxing out a bike more than once, but I'm not getting into that argument. If I wanna go fast away from prying eyes, that's my choice. I can't expect you to understand it. 🙂

I'll take anyone for a nice sedate ride on the back of the Vespa if you want to see what the fuss is about, but it's not very quick. 😉

a) Well, no I clearly don't

You clearly do – otherwise why did you crash four times?

Most people I know who drive have never had a crash that didn't involve another road user – whereas you just crashed because you were riding beyond your abilities.

I crashed my motorbike 19.6 miles after passing my test, is that a stw record.

Although in my defence I was stationary at the time and someone drove into the back of me.

a) Well, no I clearly don't

You clearly do – otherwise why did you crash four times?