See what you're doing is making assumptions

No, I'm responding directly to what people are typing. 🙂

Most bikers I know have crashed their bikes at least once through their own fault (and in my book that includes crashing on wet roads). Most of them have never crashed their cars. Proves nothing but says a lot to me at least.

I think one of mine was on a wet/greasy road, but I was not in the right frame of mind to ride a bike at the time (Seriously agitated over work) and got it all wrong. I hit a grass bank at about 40 mph. I got up and rode off. Totally my own fault.

One was on a corner I knew well, but on a new (to me) bike. I ran wide and went down on some gravel on the centre line. Own fault.

One was coming up behind a car that indicated right, I pulled in left as she went to the middle of the road and was just about to go up the inside (Perfectly OK, you'd have done it in a car) when she changed her mind pulled back in front of me. I just hit the brakes a tiny bit too hard and went down at 30mph. Technically my fault as she didn't actually hit me, but come on, WTF!!!!
Rode the bike home, couple of scratches and a broken mirror. Crash bungs on the bike saved most of the damage.

4th one I have no real idea as I was out cold and still have a 4hr blank in my life!

Cars
I've written one off in a ditch, spun twice (I was trying hard both times!!!) and had one minor knock in my own cars

Site vehicles (Land Rovers, Vans, mobile plant)
Ffffing HUNDREDS of small crashes, mostly off the road, but I did once reverse my supervisors van in a car park, just as my manager pulled out behind me, and managed to mangel both of them. That went down as his fault. 🙂

Somehow, I have full NCB on bikes and cars, and I've never made an insurance claim in in 22 years. And I'll soon have a clean license as well, despite riding bikes for 12+ years! (My last collar was in a car)

It has to be said, having access to works vehicles probably saved my skin because I could rag the spuds off them, and do silly stunts when no one was looking in the quarries. I can do J-turns and 360 degree spins when I try hard enough, and I can hold a SWB transit in a powerslide half way round a stockpile on gravel….. It's great fun, but like I say, I've done all the showing off in relative safty away from prying eyes and don't feel the need any more. I'm a 65mph in 70 limit driver in the car nowadays, and the scooter tops out at 77mph.

I only, ahem, 'make progress' whan there's nobody around. I did manage to hit the rev limiter in 6th on my Monster 696 a few times last year. Sorry. We sold our bikes late last summer (Needed the money) though.

New motorbike next year, before I get so resless I start gnawing the carpet though! 😀

Used to like Tuesday evening at Bassets Pole. Great scene, good atmosphere etc, but always some clown willing to go too far. Remember seeing a pair of such clowns wheelying from the car park down the A446 between two lanes of traffic, one on a spanking new Augusta, brings his wheelie down on the back of his mates 996'. Cars swerving, bits of expensive Italian plastic spraying all over the road etc. Thankfully neither were hurt beyond a few grazes, but what struck me was the way this pair were totally nonchulant about having just totalled £20k's worth of bikes. Like it was nothing more than a bit of a laugh. Short while later up pulls his Wife & kids in a RRover with trailer, bikes loaded on & away they go. Week later he's back, new R1 this time, up to the same tricks.
Sold my bike shortly after, found myself taking too many risks, not daft stuff but was getting faster, braver etc. I didnt have kids at the time, but seeing this chaps kids in the car & him risking his life was enough for me. Still like bikes but wouldnt ride again. Not on the road anyway.

Vastly more people are killed by cars than by motorbikes. Yes, more people drive cars, but surely we should be trying to prevent the most possible deaths.

To do that, we should be targeting dangerous, and far more prevalent, car driving.

"Vastly more" people are killed/injured by knives than by guns. Should we therefore ignore gun crime?

I ride a sportsbike with a race can (no baffle), small plate, use an iridium visor on sunny days, and ride well in excess of the NSL when I deem it safe to do so, based on nearly 30 years of riding motorbikes and police advanced training.

To many people that makes me something akin to the Antichrist.

I rather like that 🙂

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

I'm confused now. Are rappers more insidious than bikers or not?

No offence, but the fact that you've said that means that you are actually more sensible than you think you are and are possibly just afraid of the idea.

None taken, but I actually think I probably would. I know how I drive in a fast car. I rely heavily on knowing exactly how the car will react and usually give plenty of room for mistake/observation/the unexpected, but have been known to take things a step too far in the learning curve, I'm fortunate in having picked a car that'll accept my mistakes and help me fix them and allow me to wind my neck in and reconsider how I've been tempted to get to that point. That and the fact that I would only do that in a place/time where no-one else could get involved. I'm fairly sure that I'd not have the balance and poise required to deal with pushing such limits on a crotch rocket, so to some extent through fear of my own stupidity, yes, I just avoid that option!

I must say, I'm surprised at the amount of "all bikers are barstewards" attitudes here from a group of people who are usually on the receiving end of equally unfair demographic-bashing and rash generalisations from the great unwashed.

Some motorcyclists are eejits and give the rest a bad name.
Some mountain bikers are eejits and give the rest a bad name.

Spot the parallels here? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

"Crotch rocket" – I like that 😆

Cougar – yes, but from an unbiased party with little interest in bashing anyone I can say the percentage of motorcyclists that drive like nuts is remarkably high. I actually like to help out good motorcyclists, I'll stick left to help them overtake, make sure I catch their eye in my mirrors so they know I've clocked them and they can slip in front if they like, stick at a constant speed so they can judge gaps and distances better than if I was making my way as normal, very often get a nod or a wave from them. Genuinely happy to see a fast, careful motorcyclist enjoying the sun and roads. Not happy to see someone causing me grief and writing themselves and others off.

Remember seeing a pair of such clowns wheelying from the car park down the A446 between two lanes of traffic, one on a spanking new Augusta, brings his wheelie down on the back of his mates 996'. Cars swerving, bits of expensive Italian plastic spraying all over the road etc. Thankfully neither were hurt beyond a few grazes, but what struck me was the way this pair were totally nonchulant about having just totalled £20k's worth of bikes. Like it was nothing more than a bit of a laugh

I didn't see the accident, but I did see, in Farnborough where I live a bloke who'd managed to get his 955i Dayton on TOP of a car. It was just lying there on it's side on the roof! He was breathing but injured, brobably a few broken bones. This was on a dual carrigeway (A 40mph one) so they were all going in the same direction. Lord knows how he did that….

To many people that makes me something akin to the Antichrist.

I rather like that

Careful! 😉

I must say, I'm surprised at the amount of "all bikers are barstewards" attitudes here from a group of people who are usually on the receiving end of equally unfair demographic-bashing and rash generalisations from the great unwashed.

It's true.
You see, to me, ALL BIKES are the same, all equal. I posted a thread about this before – SEE HERE
Yet one faction will always have a pop at another. Cyclists go up against motorcyclists at their peril, becuse they are far more used to it and more able to stand their ground. Beware.
To me though, it's all silly. United we stand, divided we fall etc… 🙂

Coffeeking > The problem there is, you're more likely to notice and remember a berk on a bike than the ten other well-behaved ones that become part of the general traffic, not drawing attention to themselves. I'd argue that the percentage of idiotic bikers isn't "remarkably high" at all (not least because of natural selection), it's a perception issue.

I've heard the same argument from pedestrians at mixed-use trail centres, talking about how "all" MTBers are a menace and should be banned from the site. Truth is, it's a couple of knuckle-draggers causing bother.

coffeeking – Member
I know how I drive in a fast car. I rely heavily on knowing exactly how the car will react and usually give plenty of room for mistake/observation/the unexpected

Do you wear a T-shirt that says,
"I'm Mad, Me!"?

I'm fairly sure that I'd not have the balance and poise required to deal with pushing such limits on a crotch rocket, so to some extent through fear of my own stupidity, yes,

Do you not think that it is exactly the same thing, with different physical limits?

It's not fear of your stupidity, it is fear of riding a motorbike -Try it and you'll realise that it isn't that scary and is much more enjoyable than most driving. All of this,
"I'm just too crazy to ride a motorbike" is just daft.

You don't *have* to overtake people on a blind bend whilst pulling a wheelie and giving the finger to oncoming traffic and you won't because you'll realise that there are limits.

Real nutters don't give a sh*t and don't consider limits, they just ride/drive. I suspect that you're not one of them.

I've been fortunate enough to do a variety of things in my life, some of which have been relatively unconventional or risky. I've rock-climbed, power-kited, fell-walked, jumped out of perfectly good aeroplanes, run long-distance; I've ridden mountain bikes, quad bikes, motorbikes, driven a variety of cars (often, ah, "enthusiastically"), I could go on.

*Without fail*, all of these activities have had one thing in common. They've always had another group of people putting down their Daily Mail just long enough to go "well, they're all lunatics, and they should be kept away from the rest of us normal people. It's ridiculous and they're a menace and should be banned immediately." I've heard this time and again from different groups, aimed at different groups, and the upshot is the same.

1) it only takes one asshat to have everyone else tarred, and
2) some people are naturally predisposed to thinking that what they do is right and every bugger else is wrong.

Having seen both sides and being, I'd like to think, about as unbiased as is possible to be, I'd like to conclude that I'm right and you're all wrong and smell. Ner.

simonfbarnes – Member

I suggest banning cars (or limiting them to 8mph like invalid carriages) from all areas where there are pedestrians. A man walking in front with a red flag might solve unemployment at a stroke…
I quite agree with that!!!

Cougar – Member

Coffeeking > The problem there is, you're more likely to notice and remember a berk on a bike than the ten other well-behaved ones that become part of the general traffic
Bit like motorists spotting iffy cycling isn't it?

It seems we like to have an adversary that makes us feel better about ourselves by being superior to them, after all we never ride cheeky trails etc.
Let him without sin cast the first stone…..

Well quite.

still s8tannorm

sorry to hear that

I've been fortunate enough to do a variety of things in my life, some of which have been relatively unconventional or risky. I've rock-climbed, power-kited, fell-walked, jumped out of perfectly good aeroplanes, run long-distance; I've ridden mountain bikes, quad bikes, motorbikes, driven a variety of cars (often, ah, "enthusiastically"), I could go on.

*Without fail*, all of these activities have had one thing in common.

The difference though is that the first six don't involve risking killing other people.

And PeterPoddy – as I said before and you ignored – you clearly ride your motorbike beyond your abilities and shouldn't be on the road.

Wonder how many car drivers here have had several crashes that were their own fault and mostly (luckily) involved no other road users?

I must say, I'm surprised at the amount of "all bikers are barstewards" attitudes here

Where?

As has been admitted to me by a few bikers – one of the main reasons you get a fast bike is so that you can enjoy riding like a bit of a nob. I'm sure it's an amazing buzz but there's no point pretending it's not irresponsible.

Hate to say it Cougar but I suspect most red blooded males (and females) on here have also done most or all of those activities.

Yes superbike riding is also "fun" but it also endangers many other people – a motorbike going too fast (and let's admit it, they are very often going too fast) could kill people very easily. Lots of people. Yes a car can do the same but you don't often see cars sneaking through tiny gaps at 100++mph, tailgating a foot from a car bumper or taking all sorts of other risks in the pursuit of "fun."

How well do bikes corner and brake compared to something like a lotus exige?

Obi – bike slower by a fair margin. Most well sorted sporty cars can out- corner a superbike. But the bike is MUCH quicker in a straight line.

I ride a sportsbike with a race can (no baffle), small plate, use an iridium visor on sunny days, and ride well in excess of the NSL when I deem it safe to do so, based on nearly 30 years of riding motorbikes and police advanced training.

To many people that makes me something akin to the Antichrist.

The antichrist is meant to be aiming for the complete destruction of the world as we know it, creating hell on Earth. You are a middle aged IT manager going a bit fast on a sports bike. I think you need a sense of perspective; compare yourself to something a little less evil. Gremlin perhaps?

😉

Police advanced training – hmmm. That'll make you a serving or former traffic cop. I smell a whole heap of Arbroath Smokie coming off that one.

Lol – well, middle aged: yes. Manager: yes. IT: <spits> no!

Ok, to many people I am akin to a gremlin. But with less hair…

Obi – nope, no chance of me ever being a copper. A two day Ride to Arrive course with Avon & Somerset police back in the late 90's. Best money I (actually my wife paid) ever spent, those polis boys sure know how to ride, their lines are millimetre perfect.

ride well in excess of the NSL when I deem it safe to do so

i'd rather you did it when we all deem it safe ie almost never

So it wasnt even remotely close to being of an advanced level. More like pass plus in car driving terms.

Obi – nope, the aim was to get attendees to Advanced motorcycle test level. I was told I was at that level at the end of the course.

a_a: our opinions clearly differ. "we all"? You're appointed to speak for everyone?

Obi – its actually much more than pass plus. Its a higher level than IAM stuff.

I was referring to the law on speed limits. Now I break em on my bike all the time, but rarely "well in excess". The thing is you decide a level of risk but its not just for yourself and whilst you might be gods gift to riding but you cannot predict the actions of the other clowns on the roads and as such you put others at risk. I dont want to be critical as you may be a good rider but many ride fast on the roads for fun, I find that quite wrong, take it to a track.

a_a I don't disagree with what you're saying. I do like to ride fast, it's why I have a sportsbike, but I sure as hell don't want to get killed and have my kids grow up without a father, and being naturally a fairly courteous person (most of the time….) I don't want to p*ss off or inconvenience other road users. Hence when I want to go out for a hoon I go out early (7.00am) on roads I know well, that are fairly traffic-free (at that time of day), and are suitable for the sort of riding I want to do – good surface, good visibility, no hidden junctions etc.

I don't get why so many bikers go to honey-pot areas on sunny Sundays or bank holiday weekends – it can't be any fun, the risk of an accident is far higher, and loads of car drivers end up hating bikes and bikers even more, as evidenced on here.

Hey ho, like Peter Poddy I love all things on two wheels, motorised or pedal-powered.

TJ are you sure? It's just that my sources tell me that you cant get to a decent level on two days training.

Obi – it depends on your level before you do the course. I'd ridden for over 15 years when I took the course, learnt a hell of a lot, and was told at the end of the course I was of a standard to take, and probably pass, the IAM test. A girl in my sub-group of three had only recently passed her test and was miles away from IAM standard, but undoubtedly learnt skills over the two days that greatly increased her chances of living to old age.

So many bikers spend a fortune on shiny bits (like most MTBers!) when spending a few hundred quid on advanced training (road or track) increases the fun of riding hugely and makes you far safer. And incidentally, police riders, when let off the leash, don't hang about. The memory of coming over top of the Mendips at 120mph+ with a uniformed copper on his Pan European right up my chuff (with oncoming car drivers flashing me in a "slow down, there's a copper RIGHT behind you" kind of way lol) will always remain with me. The point being that the copper in question had determined I was capable of riding at that speed in appropriate conditions, and as he knew we'd all do it anyway, best he imparted his skills and knowledge to enable us to be able to judge when and where to do it safely.

my bike tries to shake my teeth loose if I go over 80mph which I find a good enough way of slowing me down.

That copper was quite clearly a bell end and should have lost his job and his licence for doing that. High speeds are for the track. Going like f*** on the road is incredibly selfish behaviour.

I have to say I fail to see how 120mph can be done safely except on maybe a very empty motorway.

Can motorcyclists see properly out of those funny helmets they wear these days? Just wondering as a lot of them seem to be way off line a lot of the time.

problem with mobikes is no matter how good the rider is, some blind old t**t will pull out and knock you off, no probs if your in a car, few dents insurance ect'ect, but on a bike your toast, i know 4 peaple that this has happend to over the years, 3 dead, one in a wheelchair for life
biggest problem with bikes is old duffers in micras who dont wear their glasses

I love bikes, but not enough to make up for a roughly 60 times increased risk of death when compared to driving cars. I stopped riding on the road, and took up track days, but seeing someone (a family guy, just like me) get killed at Cadwell Park was enough for me to completely give up riding.

If you ride a bike you just have to accept the odds that say you're more likely to have an accident (people don't see you, diesel on the road surface means a crash for a bike versus a slide for a car etc etc), and that once off the bike your chances of survival are much lower.

Good luck to those who ride. But no matter how much I love bikes, I'll not have another one.

> I'd have a bike, but I know I'd kill myself in a month because it would be too tempting to use the power and acceleration on the road

Same here – it took me long enough to calm the hell down in a car. I'd die on a bike. Just couldn't resist the acceleration.

That copper was quite clearly a bell end and should have lost his job and his licence for doing that

Daily Mail-style knee-jerk reaction I'm afraid. Look at it logically: Any muppet with a bike licence and a load of cash can walk into a dealer and buy a 180mph superbike. A lot do and then find they have nowhere near the skills or experience to handle it, leading to idiotic riding as witnessed by many on here, or them ending up in hospital or worse.

Whether you like this state of affairs or think it's sensible (it's probably a sign that I'm getting old that I'm starting to think it's not) it's the way it is. Given that people can and do buy such bikes and want to and will use the performance in question, instructors like the copper I referred to are to be commended as they recognise that fact and do their best to impart sufficient skills and knowledge to keep these guys alive.

Similarly, my (car) driving instructor took me out on the local dual carriageway while I was learning and made me accelerate to and sit at 70mph. Scared the life out of me first time he did it, but his rationale was that you'd have to drive at that speed on motorways and the like once you'd passed your test so best that you did it first in controlled conditions. Similar sensible thinking IMO, but sadly uncommon.

Good luck to those who ride. But no matter how much I love bikes, I'll not have another one

A fair few people feel the same about road cycling. I can understand why people think that way, but I love road riding and road motorcycling too much too stop. I accept the risks and do my best to mitigate them.