You know, zulu, you were going really well, up until:

without the sense of moral panic caused by ‘climate alarmism’?

Pity, the rest of what you wrote makes perfect sense

‘If’

What’s the worst scenario- were all the waters that presently ice become water, how high would sea level be and who’s taking a dip?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/rising-seas/if-ice-melted-map

zokes – Member

the vast majority of modern cars have fuel economies that were unthinkable 10-15 years ago

to a certain degree…

but, i ‘inherited’ my grandads diesel fiesta, it was old ten years ago.

70mpg was easy. It wasn’t even *that* slow – i can only guess that it weighed less than a shopping trolley.

perhaps it might be just as accurate to say that modern cars have fuel economies that no-one gave a hoot about 10-15 years ago.

To be fair, diesel Fiestas weren’t popular 20 years ago, but they are now. Safe to say that there are many more actual cars on the road that are currently doing 70mpg.

Is it just me or is the interactive map not very interactive?

What’s the worst scenario- were all the waters that presently ice become water, how high would sea level be and who’s taking a dip?

The Netherlands wouldn’t look like a great investment.
Florida doesn’t look too handy either.

Is it just me or is the interactive map not very interactive?

Not just you – tried FF and Chrome

Saw enough to work out theres going to be less land, combine that with much of the remaining land being un-inhabitible and a growing population, suggest our kids better learn to share and not expect much in the way of a garden.

Mind you one decent volcano going pop and everything will change.

this

A good article on why people like myself are fed up to the back teeth of these non-debates with deniers

http://theconversation.com/dont-let-denial-get-in-the-way-of-a-good-science-story-22496?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+4+February+2014&utm_content=Latest

Yep. And why one of the science journals websites no longer has a readers forum. There is a limit to the value of going back and forth in a way that cannot lead to any resolution.

OP. Don’t be afraid of Climate change. It is 100% natural and a beautiful thing.

But, the vast majority of modern cars have fuel economies that were unthinkable 10-15 years ago

Not really, I can happily get 65mpg from my 2000 pug diesel estate on a run. That’s about what friends get from their similarly sized diesels of today. Some of the extremes have changed, I’ll give you that, but there are not many outliers. There have been no massive advances since commonrails were introduced ~15 years ago, only a handful of smaller lighter cars which naturally win on that front.

Mind you one decent volcano going pop and everything will change.

Not exactly something to use to ignore the issues though. We could have an asteroid impact next month and kill us all, why not let anarchy rule? 🙂

I refer to Neil Armstrong, who has said that his and his two fellow Astronauts lives were entirely dependant upon knowing what every switch and button did on their space craft.

He realised, as they were returning to Earth, that our colourful and radiant planet and it’s Astronaut’s, was no different. “Until we know and understand the buttons and switches, we are likely to hit the wrong one’s” (Or words to that effect).

As for the flood’s – that’s why rivers have flood plains and then we decide to build or farm them. Larger, more economical fields also produce more run-off with no tree’s or hedgerow’s to slow the run off.

IanW – Member
What’s the worst scenario- were all the waters that presently ice become water, how high would sea level be and who’s taking a dip?

Have a walk around the wonderful Fife coastline – the raised beaches and other features illustrated just how much higher the sea has been (in geog terms not that long ago) and where the old coastlines have been. Many inhabited areas today would be 10-45 meters underwater not that long ago.

Of course there is climate change. Our climate changes ALL THE TIME.

Ever been in the Peaks? It used to be all ice. Loads of places were under water etc etc. Its happening all the time, everywhere.

What next? The Tories say we need new green taxes?

The storms are coming from SOMEWHERE ELSE. Its like monkeynomics, scare the populace with terrorism and we are **** up the weather whilst they hide their crass incompetence.

The flooding is not just a result of climate change, in fact I bet in reality its a very small part of it. I reckon the flooding is more to do with, and in no particular order:

Building houses where you shouldnt (maybe only 1 in 100 year events, but it still happens)

Our obsession with turning everything to a man made substances that doesnt hold water ie roads, buildings, carparks, housing estates

Digging up trees to make way for agricultural land.

All that has way more effect than climate change.

Anyhow wasnt the last climate change forecast that we are in fact heading for a mini ice age?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Channel_floods,_1607

Examples might be where for environmental reasons we penalise the running of old cars when it makes more sense to maximise the life of them. Or where manufacturing moves out of one country because of environmental rules, only to have the polution created in a less enlightened country and then extra transport involved in transporting goods to market.

Posted 5 hours ago #

There’s a simple fix to this.

Ban the sale of goods produced in China or India. 😈 However, I gusess they would then limit our access to rare earth materials further.

there is enough evidence to say that man is causing the climate to change beyond natural variability and the rate of change is faster than ever before.

Well to me the magnitude and rate of change from around 1910-1940 looks similar to the change between between 1980 and 2000 which started the man-made warming panic. Despite vastly higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

I can remember when scientists were predicting global cooling back in the 1970s when the global temp had been going down for a few years.

Is man affecting the climate? Of course. The debate is how much compared to natural variation. I’d say that natural variation is more important hence the stable temperatures for the last 15 years.

I’d also say that there is a problem with our climate models as they have a poor record at predicting future temps. In 1990 the IPCC predicted future temps for 3 scenarios, best guess, high emissions, and low emissions. Nearly a quarter of a century later how have they done?

Maybe we don’t need to worry that much and adaption to cope with slow climate change (however caused) is a better way to spend money than far more expensive CO2 reduction.

Well to me the magnitude and rate of change from around 1910-1940 looks similar to the change between between 1980 and 2000 which started the man-made warming panic. Despite vastly higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

I can remember when scientists were predicting global cooling back in the 1970s when the global temp had been going down for a few years.

Because the industrial revoloution totally started in 1980….

This is why you aren’t a scientist and why most people aren’t scientists – because most people are utterly incompetent at forming logical conclusions from data.

I can remember when scientists were predicting global cooling back in the 1970s when the global temp had been going down for a few years.

Wrong! They weren’t, a few papers did. This was blown out of proportion by the media.

Is man affecting the climate? Of course. The debate is how much compared to natural variation. I’d say that natural variation is more important hence the stable temperatures for the last 15 years.

I’d also say that there is a problem with our climate models as they have a poor record at predicting future temps. In 1990 the IPCC predicted future temps for 3 scenarios, best guess, high emissions, and low emissions. Nearly a quarter of a century later how have they done?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829114.500-climate-modellers-vindicated-as-forecast-comes-true.html

[quote]

Easy to cherry-pick a graph to support a point, but worth looking for more information

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/figure-1-1.html

Well to me the magnitude and rate of change from around 1910-1940 looks similar to the change between between 1980 and 2000 which started the man-made warming panic.

What a shame that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists disagree with your laymans view – I feel ceetain this wont deter you
Despite vastly higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

I can remember when scientists were predicting global cooling back in the 1970s when the global temp had been going down for a few years.*

You can remember a false claim pedalled by deniers….how interesting

The debate is how much compared to natural variation. I’d say that natural variation is more important hence the stable temperatures for the last 15 years.

If only the scientist had though to measure and quantify the natural stuff and say give a figure to the forcing affect in mans activity

Calling the last 15 years – what is it 12 of the 15 hottest years ever recorded after an el nino record year stable is an interesting spin

I’d also say that there is a problem with our climate models as they have a poor record at predicting future temps. In 1990 the IPCC predicted future temps for 3 scenarios, best guess, high emissions, and low emissions. Nearly a quarter of a century later how have they done?

This is true if i took 100 million people worldwide and got them all to smoke cigarettes my model of who gets cancer, what date, when, what type etc would also be rather poor/ inaccurate
However smoking still causes cancer and we can still make a broadly accurate picture of what will happen in both scenarios. Models are poor we all know this but the science remains robust and this fact does not disprove the science,

* My mates sons said this to me- I pointed out he was not borne until 1995 but he still remembers it – how old are you BTW to remember this?

Grum – maybe change that bubble to “what if it is just a big hoax and we tie ourselves up in pointless regulation, destroy all our industry and export all of our jobs to china for nothing?”

I find it quite amusing that there are people who still believe that around 7bn of us on the planet with all our activities aren’t doing anything to the climate, and further, find it equally perplexing that people are still willing to advocate no action be taken because of possible economic consequences, perhaps they should view the economic consequences in the same light they view the Climate change…It might never happen?

The view is simple: Economic and climate issues can no longer be viewed as mutually exclusive. Those who deny are simply greedy capitalists who view climate change as a means to block their appropriation of more wealth to the detriment of everyone else.

]

What a shame that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists disagree with your laymans view – I feel ceetain this wont deter you
Despite vastly higher atmospheric CO2 levels.

Junkyard….Global warming, also known as Climate Change, is a STUPID theory by a bunch of tree-hugging liberal hippies that states unless we go back and live in caves, the polar ice caps will melt and life as we know it will cease to exist. This theory comes from a bunch of idiotic scientists who really have no clue what they’re talking about…after all, they’re only scientists, who ever wants to listen to them? I mean sure, I admit they were right about the world being round…and the planets going around the sun… and lightning being caused by opposite charges between the earth and the sky, not Zeus…and worms and rats not appearing out of nowhere…and stars being balls of gas burning millions of miles away, not holes in heaven…and the brain being the center of the nervous system, not the heart…and lead poisoning being able to kill you…and cigarettes being bad for you, and everything else ever discovered or invented, but still! They’re wrong!

They’re all a bunch of liberal crackpots who have a political agenda, so who wants to listen to them? It is almost exclusively believed by left wing bleeding-heart Democrats who are influenced by rich environmental lobby groups and opposed to the economy and anyone with a job. One of these bleeding heart socialist Democrats, Al Gore, has made a propaganda video regarding global warming entitled An Inconvenient Truth which uses heartless fear-mongering, and all kinds of heartless, cruel, un-American facts in an attempt to get people to consume less and sabotage the American economy, culminating in Ford going out of business, which will mean that the terrorists will win. Republicans/Ukip would never use this type of fear mongering for political gain, never! So stop criticizing us, after all, you don’t want the terrorists to come get you, right? These global warming people are the same tree hugging hippies that said DDT was bad for the environment back in the 70s and 80s!

And there gentlemen is why I advocate that right-wing crackpots should be eliminated to save the rest of us.

unkyard….Global warming, also known as Climate Change, is a STUPID theory by a bunch of tree-hugging liberal hippies that states unless we go back and live in caves, the polar ice caps will melt and life as we know it will cease to exist

If only they could present their views in the moderate way you do 😕

I did not read after that point as its obvious you are a bit “emotional” on this issue and its some way short of a factual/rational debate

I did not read after that point as its obvious you are a bit “emotional” on this issue and its some way short of a factual/rational debate

I’d assumed he was taking the piss, you guys think he was serious?

oh dear
😯

I thought it was genius.

I dont know I literally dipped in for one minute and replied – i have not really read the thread

I guess 😳

I assumed it was a piss take and

These global warming people are the same tree hugging hippies that said DDT was bad for the environment back in the 70s and 80s!

would confirm it

Junkyard – lazarus
I dont know I literally dipped in for one minute and replied – i have not really read the thread

I guess

Another entry in the log book of ‘JY not reading threads’ 🙂

Ban the sale of goods produced in China or India. However, I gusess they would then limit our access to rare earth materials further.

That’s not particularly useful, but to avoid exporting our pollution or poor labour practices, I wouldn’t argue against imports to EU having to be produced under standards applicable to manufacturing in the EU.

Two easy to read books I recommend if you are just getting into this and are an AGW sceptic:

WaterMellons by James Dellingpole
Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes & Erik Conway

Neither contain any real science but cover many of the usual topics that get thrown up when these sorts of threads appear.

Dellingpole 😆

If only they could present their views in the moderate way you do

I did not read after that point as its obvious you are a bit “emotional” on this issue and its some way short of a factual/rational debate

Sea levels are actually rising because the USA is sinking under the immense weight of 300 million fat people.

Look…correlation.

The decrease in the number of pirates has also been cited by these stupid, tree-hugging hippies as proof that humans are irreversibly raping our planet. This does not mean anything though, as temperatures have been known to be bouncing around constantly and reached record highs since the hottest period of mankind, the Ice Age. Of course, these “bouncings” were all minor and had natural causes, but so does this! I’ll get back to you later about what the natural cause is, but I assure you that there is one! Humans aren’t the cause of global warming! They also aren’t the cause of deforestation, or pollution of any kind! I read in the Daily Mail that pollution is actually good and we should actually make more of it! So there’s nothing to worry about!

Even if global warming is true, which it probably isn’t, the Bible clearly states that we can not put animals and the environment ahead of human beings. Bleeding heart left wing socialist flag-burning hippies claim that global warming will have a profound impact on Earth. Some even say that Slough will be underwater, but why would anyone not want that to happen? It’ll make a great place to take a submarine! Some other bleeding heart socialist child-burning tree huggers insist that the melting polar ice caps will permit tropical diseases to thrive. But who cares? We need less people on Earth anyway! There is some evidence that fanatics across Britain may be jumping on the environmental bandwagon, but our brave leader “Call me Dave” is helping to put an end to that by branding any environmental issue as “Green Crap”.

Neither contain any real science

, yeah Delingpole has a problem with science.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuQLvK6kxeU[/video]

😆 Dellingpole 😆

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaDVOd2sRQ[/video]

Don’t worry CO2 is naturally occurring and only makes up 3% of the atmosphere.

So nothing to see here.

Jesus Saves

In response to Nurse’s question as to whether he(delingpole) had read any peer-reviewed papers, he maintained that as a journalist “it is not my job” to read peer reviewed papers, but be “an interpreter of interpretations”.

mystic meg