The customer is always right.

I.E. Anyone who can afford your product is worth keeping.

If you have to question the last line you shouldn’t be in the business.

Have you ever worked for a manufacturer Hora? I’d add an “almost” in your first line and a “probably” in the second.

Agreed rich penny. 😀

“I’d still buy a nicolai and if it had a warranty issue I’d expect them to honor it but if I’d been riding with Uri Geller I wouldn’t expect them to.” LOL.

I heard a guy on the trail screaming “workk,workkk!” as he descended out of control on his Nicolai earlier this afternoon.

a customer who is costing you money and may be acting as if they will cause you more hassle in the future is not a customer you may necessarily think its worth keeping.

ATB sales are fantastic on warranty but people won’t buy marin because they aren’t cool. people are fickle and nicolai are cooler than one complaint, people will continue to buy them.

For what it is worth, and I am biased, my Nicolai worked flawlessly today. Again.

They reckoned that the goodwill is something that you can’t buy and that the customer will return and that they will tell lots of friends & colleagues, so much so that the cost will always be more than repaid they can take the pi$$ too and get free stuff.

There you go 🙂
I love the people that came into the shop with a wheel that looks like a pringle and say “My little angelic child was riding off of a kerb and this happened, he could have died”, umm OK, damn that kerb.

For what it is worth, and I am biased, my Nicolai worked flawlessly today. Again.

Likewise.

I can’t get away from the fact that this is a problem that didn’t manifest itself for a year.

It’s surely impossible for alloy box section to bend at 90 degrees to the angle of force from ‘fatigue’, so it had to happen during ownership even if the OP is personally unaware of any circumstances that could have caused it.

Their are clearly elements of customer service that have been less than perfect in dealing with the issue but the end result of a new rear end for £130 is generous considering it’s not actually warranty issue.

Not sure what to think about this, but a couple of things strike me.

If the user and the dealer both failed to spot the bent strut, it is probably pretty minor (although obviously big enough to cause a problem). What amazes me is the impression I get that Nicolai find it unimaginable that a fault could slip through their QC. Anything built with humans involved can and does go wrong.

The other thing is the prevailing sentiment that small scale european ‘hand crafted’ type producers will somehow have better QC than mass producers in Taiwan. The guys in Taiwan closely control their production yield and will know the rate of warranty returns for a particular product. This is why they can price in replacements and hand out new frames when there is a problem. In my opinion, mass production is one of the most amazing feats of engineering in the modern world, I don’t get the impulse to have something expensively made on a small scale for reasons other than custom geometry/sizing or exclusivity.

“A problem that fails to show itself for a year”

Again. So why do frame manufacturers offer 2, 4, 5 and lifetime warranties?

How about Enduros that are known to fail in the same place?

Stand by your product. I think its safe to say that if someone can overpay for an aluminium tubed bicycle then they aren’t the sort that will lie over a small £% cost are they?

Choron
A few posters have implied nicolais qc is beyond reproach. Nicolai haven’t said that.

The decision to buy a nicolai over say a specialized is not necessarily made with the head. I still get my ass kicked by many a mass market bike. Most mass produced bikes, however good they may be just don’t do it for me. And most nicolai owners i know are the same. My nics are maintained religiously as I enjoy cleaning and working on them. My wife’s mass produced car never even gets washed and gets the bare minimum of maintainance. There’s nothing wrong with it and it does it’s job well but it’s just a car in the same way a specialized is just a bike.

My wife’s mass produced car never even gets washed and gets the bare minimum of maintainance. There’s nothing wrong with it and it does it’s job well but it’s just a car in the same way a specialized is just a bike.

In no way would I class Specialized as a bland mass-market ride or feel to their frames.

In addition Ford have made soooo many cars that blow any Alfa or Audi etc out of the water for steering feel and dynamics.

They build a product that excel at the primary purpose first. Just because a company isn’t that successful (meaning they are small) doesn’t make them better.

Boutique can mean ‘small volume/not as good a product’. Fancy paint jobs and high prices doesn’t mean the fundamental product is better now does it?

I’ve always looked at Nicolai’s and thought ‘heavy and pricey for what they are’.

And thats coming from a reformed gear-queer.

Haven’t read all of this but a few points I have

I have 3 Nicolais and have owned 5 in total. Love them and would not hesitate in buying another. Not had a single issue to report. Think the OP has been very unlucky

I think the German response though slow was not unreasonable.

I think the UK Nicolai guys should be embarrased by their role (or lack of) in the whole thing. Warranty or not they should be helping their customers more than this. If I had to deal direct with them rather than Psycle Werx (my excellent LBS) my comment above about not hesitating would not apply

As everyone is sticking their oar in I think I’ll have a go as well.

I’m totally with the OP. The ONLY way that a strut could bend like that is if there has been some sort of latent fault within it and whilst it managed to last about a year before the fault manifested itself when you buy a tip top frame such as a Nicolai CC with a 5 year warranty you expect the 5 year warranty to cover faults such as this.
I’m pretty sure the law covers latent defects in the Sales of Goods Act as well and a 2 grand bike frame that starts to fold in on itself after year certainly isn’t fit for purpose so had the OP been of a litigious nature he could have gone to court against Nicolai UK armed with a metallurgist’s report and had a reasonable case to get his money back on the frame.

The real telling thing in one of these threads is when a representative from the company being accused to less than perfect customer service comes along and defends the company and by doing so gives the air of lacking the authority or capacity to simply sort a situation out, you can almost smell the impotence. The “No, but you did this”, “I couldn’t do that cos you said that” and the final inevitable “well we’ve got plenty of other customers who are happy!” trying to imply that if you are in a minority then you must be wrong.

The cold hard fact is when you are spending over 2 THOUSAND POUNDS on a mountain bike frame then when it breaks it should get fixed, you shouldn’t have the company quibble, the repairer should be chased up and a line of communication with the customer should be kept open by the seller. In doing this you get many threads across the net praising your customer service and so people are happier to spend money with you knowing that the company are behind you. The villain of this piece sounds to me like Nicolai Germany for not giving Nicolai UK enough authority to deal with its own problems.

So if I bend my frame the manufacturer should replace it for free?

Under the sale of goods act after something is six months old it is up to you to show it was a manufacturing fault.

How a bent piece that does not manifest itself until the bike is a year old can be a manufacturing fault is a mystery to me

Under the sale of goods act after something is six months old it is up to you to show it was a manufacturing fault.

So why do bike manufacturers offer 1, 2 3+ warranties?

Because they want to.

Any manufacturers warranty is on top of your legal rights – ie extra to them and is a goodwill measure.

they can ask you to bear the cost of returns for example or make all sorts of hoops for you to jump thru.

So if I bend my frame the manufacturer should replace it for free?

Under the sale of goods act after something is six months old it is up to you to show it was a manufacturing fault.

that is why I said “with a metallurgist’s report”

How a bent piece that does not manifest itself until the bike is a year old can be a manufacturing fault is a mystery to me

Having read your input on here for quite a while all I can say is I think probably a lot of things are a mystery to you but it doesn’t stop you trying to sound like an expert.

can you explain why this part would mysteriously bend after a period of use?

Maybe the OP rode past this bloke:

The frame did not cost over £2k. It cost £1250 plus a shock. Cheaper then many frames.

Even at full price with a shock it is still sub £2k

So why do bike manufacturers offer 1, 2 3+ warranties?

1. For weak welds which might take time to manifest themselves
2. Because its sounds good in their marketing literature

But if you tried to claim a bent chain stay under warrenty, I bet they too would tell you where to go.

You buy a supercar (SW seems to like Aston Martins), drive it for a year look after it but one day you notice a dent in a side panel. When you take it to the dealer do you expect that it will be repaired free of charge? Course not, so why should bike manufacturers be any different?

The ONLY way that a strut could bend like that is if there has been some sort of latent fault within it and whilst it managed to last about a year before the fault manifested itself

I’d say totally the opposite is probably true.

A latent fault would most likely fail in the direction in which the force is applied to it. It would also most likely crack but this strut hasn’t cracked, it has bent and in a horizontal plane at 90 degrees to the main forces are applied in it’s use.

There are 3 most likely causes – it left the factory bent, it got bent in transit to the customer or it got bent during the time of ownership. The fact that it didn’t show any symptoms during the 1st year of ownership would suggest the latter.

The ONLY way that a strut could bend like that is if there has been some sort of latent fault within it

Eh, what about if someone stood on it while it was laid on the ground?

Eh, what about if someone stood on it while it was laid on the ground?

If you read back along the previous 4 pages, the OP is adamant this didn’t happen.
Although as I pointed out in an earlier post, I bent my road bike without knowing about it. Bends, dents, dings, scratches all happen when using a mountain bike, whether or not you’re aware of it at the time it actually happens…

I do like how the price of this frame is getting infalted by the day, it was up to £2.5k being spent at one point.

Irrespective of price, if it gets bent at some point after it was built up and it takes the owner some time (not determining the time frame here) to notice the affects of said bend in said section of frame it’s very much like ianv’s analogy.

And I actually agree with TJ, granted the process was a little protracted, the communication could’ve been better, but a solution has been found where a new back end was made availabel for a very reasonable price.

On another note, I thrashed my Helius CC to the radmaxgnar at the weeked on a tour de force le Peaks and it was ace (didn’t bend), bar a bit of chain suck.

Should I contact Raceface to give me some new rings as they didn’t do that a few months ago in the dry but appear to do so now, don’t know how it happened mind 😉

The brake rub may not have manifested itself prior to the first year for 3 reasons.
1) It didnt exist before i.e. damage caused after purchase
2) OP hadnt noticed it due to lack of use.
3) Fault had caused gradual wear elsewhere which then manifested itself after a time.

Im pretty sure it would be easy to write off most frames without leaving any telltale marks, should you want to do so. So its not beyond the bounds of belief that something could have happened to the bike whilst the OP was not around.
Im sure we’ve all knocked something over, dusted it off and quickly checked for no damage and replaced it.
Perhaps someone else did similar?

If you read back along the previous 4 pages, the OP is adamant this didn’t happen.

I did, and had already asked how he was certain no one could have damaged it – no answer. I mean, everybody leaves their bikes unattended at some point, don’t they?

Hora talking utter b0ll0cks again…

IanV – not sure I agree with you entirely on your ‘supercar’ analogy. A dent in a panel would be like a scratch on a frame. You wouldn’t take it back demanding a new car regardless of whether you’d done it or not. A bent stay is structural, like a bent suspension component on a car. Something initially out of line that with time has worsened to the point of causing an issue.

To me, if a frame is out of warrenty and has an issue then I’d be miffed, aim for a compromise and be happy. Delays in customer service at whatever end are a different matter altogether.

Don’t get me started.

See my thread here

Frame away 8 weeks before any costings received (over Eurobike to be fair so no-one around). Have been back and forward now several times and I’m STILL not clear what is included for the 2 prices I’ve been quoted. I’m a bit of a fanboi – 3 Nics, well, 2.5 – but we still haven’t agreed a spec of work and there is no end in sight. If this was my only bike I’d be raging. As it is I don’t need the bike but if you were gagging to get it back you’d be sorely disappointed. They seem to be stop start – I’ll get furious activity and a few emails followed by radio silence for days/weeks. Not sure what to make of it. Would I buy another? Maybe but I’d think hard next time.

Darren, it might actually be better to reply to me rather than posting on here?

I didn’t get a reply to my mail of 5 Oct until 10 November and am waiting on a response from you now.

TBH dazzling a slightly different direction on issue but common ground on communication.

I was worried about lengthy delay (I.e I’d have to buy an new frame and fork) however in the end my forks were turned around in a day (new rebound and new moco unit) and the frame (2hours). At least a fast and decisive answer should be forthcoming. Bike companies should always have phone and email complaints covered.

Flange by name? Apt.

This reads alot like

‘I don’t really understand how I damaged my bike, so it must be the manufacturers fault’

Its not a great situation, but I can’t see they owe you anything.