Senior officials have discussed handing the management of up to 20 English NHS hospitals to overseas companies, emails released by the government indicate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14778406

Everyone with their eyes open know this is the aim. To give NHS assets and money to foreign private health companies. Don’t be fooled. This is clearly that aim. Read up on the links between tories and the US healthcare countries.

all the nonsense about clinician making decision s is a smokescreen. GPs do not have the expertise to do this. Tehy will be encouraged to contract out the management / commissioning functions to private companies who will then give the profitable parts to their buddies.

do your bit – fight to save the NHS

In other shocking news, its been revealed that the companies that supply the NHS with machinery, ambulances, beds, cleaning materials, drugs, plasters, consumables and computers are all private sector companies that make a profit out of providing to the public sector

Will nobody put an end to this madness!

my Trust currently has a ban on recruitment and a M.A.R.S. scheme going (mutually agreed resignation scheme) to try and reduce staffing further, PFI application has been put on hold too, basically it’s even more down the ****er than it ever was, the above wouldn’t surprise me at all, especially as they are talking “central hubs” for pathology rather than individual hospitals, weather these hubs are in the UK has yet to be determined, but it doesn’t take long to fly blood samples etc to the likes of India et al

Well, they effectively privatised the undergraduate element of the universities with the tuition fees move, so I guess they are just looking for he next thing to sell off.

They’re probably using it as a diversion to get the forests sold; I mean which are the great British public going to get more upset about? 😉

You are very cynical TJ. The exchange of emails with American Private Providers was simply an exercise in our favourite Downing Street nutters blue-sky-thinking programme. It was purely a sort of thinking-out-loud. One which they clearly wanted to keep from the public as they didn’t want us worrying our pretty little heads about.

They are absolutely hell bent on opening up the NHS to European competition law. Because once they do, then its irreversible. The genie is well and truly out of the lamp. At the NHS will be absolutely at the mercy of big business. Them and their mates. Chances of the present health secretary, and one or two other tory MP’s popping up on one of their boards as a non-exec director in a year or two after the deed is done?

Why are you such a xenophobe, TJ?

here we have the best funded health care service in the world and all it gets is knocks.. sure money is tight but those spending the money have to spend it wiser money doesnt grow on trees..
the health service like many public cervice providers seems more keen to shed jobs than reduce the income of those it employs? does my mrs mate whos a gp need to pay 22k into a pension fund.. who much does she need? does the guy living opposite who has a degree in elctricl engineering and maintains equipment in a local hospital need to take 4 years off to get a physics degree all paid for?
surely if all the employess agreed there true value based on a set wage budget they could all work and maintain the service level just not have quite the benifits they once had.. just like my lads did when i said i couldnt afford to keep them all on this summer but would need them all come october.

Zulu-Eleven – Member

In other shocking news……………..Will nobody put an end to this madness!

Not quite as shocking as when I first heard your guru Zulu-Eleven, and writer of your bible “The Plan”, Dan Hannan, slag off the NHS to an American TV audience, calling it a failed experiment and mistake which made people “iller” ! And urging the American people to keep their appalling private profit making healthcare system.

Let’s remind ourselves what your political inspirator had to say about the NHS Zulu-Eleven

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSPRkq28iU[/video]

What sort of Schweinhund makes a profit out of sick kiddies ?

Well, apart from each and every employee of the NHS who sell their time, at a profit, to their employer?

To give NHS assets and money to foreign private health companies

that’s called a PFI? you know all the off-balance sheet dodgy contract financing of shiny new stuff we need and sometimes don’t need because we change our mind that’s happened for the last 20 years

the interview of Hannan was so sycophantic (sic) it wasn’t true, ego’s on both sides being stroked

I don’t think you understand what “profit” means cranberry.In fact it’s clear that you don’t.

I guess it depends on the person/role you are dealing with. If it’s someone whose conduct will have a direct or indirect affect on the outcomes of the wellbeing of me, my family or friends. I’d like to deal with people who were motivated to do the best they could rather than the minimum they can get away with. As Z11 illustrated both public and private sectors can do this very well, but likewise can also be tasked with doing the minimum that can be got away with. So for me the issue is not public vs. private, but excellence vs. mediocrity (or as politicians would put it – ‘Delivering value for money in difficult times’, or some similar guff)

Most people I know on the shopfloor are adopting the crash position… get ready for the clusterfeck.

I would like to grip people who spout vague platidues about markets and competition in defence of all this. Decent service in acute care is dependent upon co-operation & collaboration: between individuals, between specialties, between hospitals. Do not underestimate the importance of that capacity. And some right nonsense has been promoted in defence of the ConDem reforms (e.g. the dubious use of AMI data here). The NHS may not be perfect, but we are in serious danger of fragmenting the kind of stuff it can do well. The plans will do wonders for the health of nicely-timed ventures like Circle inc – I doubt they will do wonders for overstretched elderly care wards.

My dad has just retired from it all, praise be, and so won’t be dealing with the coming nonsense (how does competition “work” in paediatric intensive care, FFS?).

Platitudes, even. 🙄

profit
noun
1. Often, profits.
a. pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction. Compare gross profit, net profit.
b.the ratio of such pecuniary gain to the amount of capital invested.
c. returns, proceeds, or revenue, as from property or investments.
2. the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc.: The company works on a small margin of profit.
3. advantage; benefit; gain.

I understand fully what profit means.

I think the third explanation follows from the previous ones in the list.

Gaining a monetary reward from having sold your labour is not a “profit”. It’s a wage.

(how does competition “work” in paediatric intensive care, FFS?).

well, you goto your GP, who is the one who is providing the funding, s/he will suggest the best hospital/the one who gave him/her the best freebie. You’ll be given some choices, do you want blue sheets or yellow sheets, would you like to be treated by the senior consultant or are you happy with the junior doctor, (think hairdressers). Would you like the drugs that might work, or some sugar pills. Would you be interested in an extended warranty on the work? How about some Insurance just in case you get ill again, afterall you never know.

See lots of ways competition can work.

The idea of selling medical care is abhorrent.

the one who gave him/her the best freebie

There will be an avalanche of promotional tat, especially pens. 🙂

CaptJon – Member

The idea of selling medical care is abhorrent.

Why? How would your dentist make a living, otherwise?

Don’t forget that good old partner GPs in surgeries are self employed individuals that happen to have a contract to provide services to the NHS.

the current crop of torries have been planning thsi all along, one of camerons main advisors on healthcare is a front for the US healthcare lobbyists
and just look at the toad hanrahan renting his ass to the big healthcare companies to attack obamas reforms

before long we will have all the benefits of american healthcare;
itll cost the taxpayer twice as much,
provide healthcare for less people,
reduce average life expectancy
and make some nice profits for ex-mps/ exec directors of the new providers

Wages are not profit they are compensation or a payment …pretty basic economics.
To say they profit from it would be stretching the definition to breaking point IMHO

(w?j)
n.
Payment for labor or services to a worker, especially remuneration* on an hourly, daily, or weekly basis or by the piece.
wages Economics. The portion of the national product that represents the aggregate paid for all contributing labor and services as distinguished from the portion retained by management or reinvested in capital goods.
A fitting return; a recompense. Often used in the plural with a singular or plural verb: the wages of sin

*Remuneration is the total compensation that an employee receives in exchange for the service they perform for their employer. Typically, this consists of monetary rewards, also referred to as wage or salary[1]. A number of complementary benefits, however, are increasingly popular remuneration mechanisms.

profit..
•
[C or U] money which is earned in trade or business, especially after paying the costs of producing and selling goods and services.. a bit like the profit you make from selling your time and skills to the nhs as an employee then.

especially after paying the costs of producing and selling goods and services.. a bit like the profit you make from selling your time and skills to the nhs as an employee then.

“Especially after paying the costs of producing and selling goods and services” ?

Obviously nothing like an NHS employee then.

jez, i can’t believe that a thread about the NHS being shut down has descended in to an argument about the definition of profit and wages.

And to be clear Wages are not profit. Wages are a business Cost, and to the employee they are compensation not profit.

The post in question said “employee…sell their time, at a profit, to their employer”. “At a profit”, as opposed to “at a loss” for example. It didn’t say that wages were profits. Practically all NHS employees will profit as a result of (or, perhaps more accurately, as part of) their employment.

I’m surprised that those who wish to change the meaning of words to suit their own personal political agendas haven’t yet invoked God …..

“For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?”

Of course the Lord’s Prayer says :

“forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those that trespass against us”

Which brings a whole new meaning to the word “trespass”.

@OP and the public are taking it up the backside as usual.

Broken promises by Tories shock…

Earn more cash/move away and don’t worry?

the public are taking it up the backside as usual

Are they though ? Just about every single opinion poll since the last general election has had the Tories behind Labour. Surprisingly, there wasn’t even the “honeymoon period” which always occurs when a party is first elected to government. In the case of the junior party in the coalition their support immediately collapsed to half of what it had been.

There is no evidence that Tory policies enjoy widespread support among the general public. In fact there is plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite. And let’s not forget that, despite being in opposition for 13 years, Tory policies so unimpressed the electorate that they found themselves unable to form an effective government without the support of a rival party.

rOcKeTdOg – do I take it that you work in Pathology?

Are they though ? Just about every single opinion poll since the last general election has had the Tories behind Labour. Surprisingly, there wasn’t even the “honeymoon period” which always occurs when a party is first elected to government. In the case of the junior party in the coalition their support immediately collapsed to half of what it had been.

And the alternative was? i don’t think the tories won the election, it was more a case that the Labour party was such a shower of S**** that they were virtually unelectable. A really crap state of affairs.

Well, since we’re discussing profit as being such a critical issue… what if an NHS facility/operation, was passed over to a private not-for-profit organisation?

BUPA
Macmillan

😉

Who the flecking hell would ever vote Tory, for gods sake they are running the country into the ground

Toxicshocks, yes Histology

Who the flecking hell would ever vote Tory Labour, for gods sake they are running ran the country into the ground

FTFY

There is no evidence that Tory policies enjoy widespread support among the general public. In fact there is plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite. And let’s not forget that, despite being in opposition for 13 years, Tory policies so unimpressed the electorate that they found themselves unable to form an effective government without the support of a rival party.

This shower know they have a small chance of winning the next election, but they would have to be extraordinarily bad for voters to vote for milliband, although the amount of cock ups, u-turns and other stuff they’ve done stranger things have happened.

So putting the politics aside, they have focused on the economics and how many nests of their associates they can feather through privatisation before they leave. And when they leave Government there’ll be no consequences for them as they are millionaires.

Who the flecking hell would ever vote ToryLabour, for gods sake they are runningran the country into the ground

No point doing that Pies as everyone already knows that the previous labour Government were tories in disguise. Just highlights the mess the country has got into by having too many tory type Governments in power.

Why on earth weren’t you lot out riding your bikes today?

@ernie_lynch & Co, I agree.

I did vote labour last time, I thought they were not the party of ’97 but I wasn’t going to vote Tory, BNP or Lib Dem.

If the public can’t stand the Torys, then I hope Labour get a real leader and start the challenge at the next election.

I guess we have to wait till the next election otherwise we’ll get a water cannon in the face.