Lol at thepodge slagging off another bike he has not ridden. 😆

I like it but it’s a shame they only offer full builds as I could possibly go for a frame with my own build but would never drop 7k on a push bike, especially when the gains over a significantly cheaper bike are so marginal.

With all this talk of longer travel 29ers has my 5 29 become fashionable again? 😐

Smuggler – I actually really like it. But “Smuggler” sounds cack.

I can be pretty shallow and perverse when it comes to choosing bikes, but I must admit the name never bothered me. As bigjim says it only actually appears on the inside of the seatstays and it’s a sticker, so you can remove it.

Anyway, here’s a picture to help you decide 🙂

Smuggler is a lovely bike. Bigjims is the wrong colour but it looks great from a distance and it really hangs together up close too. LT 29ers can look a bit gawky but it just looks… bikey.

chestrockwell – Member

With all this talk of longer travel 29ers has my 5 29 become fashionable again?

I’m afraid the Five 29 became obsolete and old hat when they changed the stickers. I mean, when they launched the Alpine Five.

chestrockwell – Lol at thepodge slagging off another bike he has not ridden.

Lol at chestrockwell being unable to read. I’ll summarise it for the stupid amongst us…

journalists like fluffing out reviews, isn’t different enough to interest me, lost of people argued, bike looks nice

There’s a lot of arm-twisting going on in this thread. 🙂

There’s a lot of arm-twisting going on in this thread.

Better check you can get one before you get too excited!

Northwind – Member
Smuggler is a lovely bike. Bigjims is the wrong colour

Northwind speaks the truth. 🙂

No doubt it will sell well, but it doesn’t really offer anything new, just another addition to the growing selection of aggressive 29ers.

I do know it makes me miss my Enduro 29er though. Well, actually, the Yeti doesn’t. It’s more the sheer speed of the bloody thing I miss and its ability to thunder along rocky stuff without any bother.

No doubt it will sell well, but it doesn’t really offer anything new, just another addition to the growing selection of aggressive 29ers.

Well it does – it’s an aggressive 29er that Yeti’s pro enduro team can ride without having to cover it in camouflage! 😉

Regarding the long/low/slack thing, I too am thinking that it’s a sufficiently long established geometric approach that reviewers need to start differentiating more clearly and not falling into lazy writing (just because it isn’t a steep old hardtail it isn’t long/low/slack, it’s not black and white). Look at this new Kinesis review:

http://singletrackworld.com/reviews/review-kinesis-phase/

35mm BB drop on a 27.5 bike isn’t low. 418mm reach isn’t long. 67 deg static head angle isn’t slack.

In fact, it’s pretty similar in all respects (bar the wheel size adjustment) to a Ragley Blue Pig from 2010. Compare that to an Orange Crush or P7, a Bird Zero AM or TR, a Ragley Blue Pig 27.5. Completely different world!

So in conclusion, the article is rubbish, the bike is rubbish, and no bikes are long or slack enough for the stw experts?

Smuggler is a lovely bike. Bigjims is the wrong colour

Northwind speaks the truth.

Hey, man, black was all I was going to get without waiting 8 months or something, and orange wasn’t an option at that time anyway 😛 Anyway it’s usually a brown colour most of the time so the underneath colour doesn’t matter much!

67 deg static head angle isn’t slack.

shut your hole

shut your hole

Crossed wires – I was referring to that 27.5 Kinesis hardtail. 67 deg static HA on a 29er full-sus is much slacker! 🙂

Regarding longness (sic) and lowness, I went pretty far with my new hardtail (tweaked Zero AM) and was concerned that it would make my full-sus (Spitfire) feel too short and high.

In actual use though, despite the sagged BB height of the hardtail being quite a bit lower (definitely in the ridiculously low region – I’m running 165mm cranks), the BB heights when riding and pumping the bikes or loading into turns are actually pretty similar. The full-sus just sits a bit higher when pedalling, which makes it a better climber when ground clearance matters.

And the reach thing – the hardtail is about 40mm longer in reach (again sagged, not static) but as the full-sus has 50mm wider bars (800s) they feel a similar size but a different shape (I prefer the wider bars but trees are an issue on my home trails). And the full-sus doesn’t feel at all lacking in length. The wheelbases are very similar anyway because the full-sus has a slacker head angle at sag, longer forks, and longer chainstays when sagged, so it’s not lacking any stability.

Anyway, that’s a roundabout way of saying that although conceptually I like these bikes like the Pole and Geometron that are really pushing the boundaries of geometry, I’m on the fence as to whether it’s a good thing for me as a rider. I’m good at going fast over rough stuff, it’s actually when it’s tight and twisty that I’m not so good on a bike (despite that being most of the riding I do!)

bigjim – So in conclusion, the article is rubbish, the bike is rubbish, and no bikes are long or slack enough for the stw experts?

Yes, no, not at all. I genuinely do like the bike but the small is too short and the medium is too long for me.

The reach on a SC Hightower is 10mm longer, on a Transition Smuggler its 17mm longer and the Kona Process 29mm longer all for similar seat tube sizes. Surely we cant be saying +/- 15mm is long.

I should have added some more 😛 faces, I was being quite tongue in cheek 😛

or was I

Saw the article and thought it’d make a lovely replacement for the Codeine. Don’t know why everyone seems to think that longer is without question better, I find the short-ish reach of the Codeine allows me to muscle it around tight stuff easily enough and keeps it nice and poppy whilst still monster-trucking with the best if them.

Then I saw the price and decided I best just get fitter.

Lol at chestrockwell being unable to read. I’ll summarise it for the stupid amongst us…

Always worth checking auto correct before calling people stupid. 😉

There will always be a point when any extreme goes past the point of being useful. Bikes can only get so much longer, lower and slacker before big compromises will have to be accepted. The fact people are having to use shorter and shorter crank arms points to this IMO.

Most of the current breed of 120/160mm 650b or 29er seem to be decent all rounders. Going too LLS will reduce the bike to niche and a tool for a specific area. Fine if you can afford many bikes, not so much if you can’t or don’t want to.