davidtaylforth – Member
The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres. 1 foot drop offs and 3 foot table tops are a daunting prospect when your used to pootling down a smooth, grassy hill side with your seat up your arse.

+1

Surely trail centres/bike parks/man-made trails are the purest form of mountain biking: Anything else is orienteering mixed with a bit of bike riding.

Let's face it: Those who invented mountain biking just wanted to ride bikes and have fun, not spend most of their time reading a map.

**takes his devil's advocate hat off**

Personally I prefer natural stuff. Part of MTB fo rme is to get out into countryside /solitude and enjoy this. Trail centres are ok and I do ride occasionally. [LLandegla yesterday].
I can clear everything – did the new bit nice jumps weird [rough smooth slabbed bit]…was that to simulate natural stuff?. I think the best bits of trail centres are better than natural stuff – jumps, berms, etc. The worst bits are far worse – going up a fire road with no view and no technical challenge with lots of longish linky stuff that is neithe rone thing nor another. Quite liked Whinlatter for just climbing up then all descent down but would have to drive past so much Lake choices I doubt I will get there again.

The problem is that we build trail centres all wrong in this country: We try and make all trails rideable by everyone, which ultimately leads them being boring for the more experienced riders. What they need to do is to take on the Canadian trail grading system and build trails to fulfill all the categories i.e. green (easiest), blue, black, double black (hardest). Plus they need to to provide a mixture of fast, flowy stuff, and slower technical stuff within those aforementioned categories.

If trail centres were built like this, then we wouldn't be having this argument.

Can't speak for all trail centers but Kirroughtree sounds not a million miles from what you've described.

Scotland is the nearest you will get and I think they try and use the Canadian template for their trail grading system, but the places in Wales really need to add more difficulty and variety to keep people coming back.

If you think trail centres are dull and boring, head to Stainburn in Yorkshire for a tech-fest.

how do you lead a beginners ride without offering instruction?

I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach 🙁

The best natural trails are better than the best trail centres.

The worst natural trails are worse than the worst trail centres.

Pretty much spot on I'd say.

With a trail centre you'll probably never have the awesome highs of the best natural riding…

Cresting a ridge and seeing miles of remote glen stretching out in front of you, with a ribbon of singletrack across it. Blue sky, green hills and purple heather greeting you with open arms, you pause for a moment to take in the silence before riding on.

But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs.

I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach

Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.

Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.

right enough, and I would never suggest anyone did that!

But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs

Maybe I'm weird but a bit of pushing or carrying and some rain/wind adds to the challenge and therefore the satisfaction. It's also how you get the best rewards – no pain, no gain

What exactly defines a trail centre?

My regular haunt includes Leith, Pitch, Ranmore and Holmbury a few manmade or certainly man maintained trails and a few others that are a little less obviously manmade and a few cheeky bits it's pretty much a trail centre to me.

Afan was obviously a trail centre and was a good place to spend a couple of days having a giggle and getting some newbies up to speed, depending on how fast you went it got more challenging.

To me technical doesn't always mean slow rocky, rooty and steep it can just be a frame of mind there is a world of difference between getting down a trail and getting down it with some style!

Other than Scotland there is hardly anything in the UK that can be described as truly wild.

(From http://abtrusegoose.com.)

But even moreso as so many "natural" trails were originally created by people or farmed animals. Calling trail centre trails purpose-built trails seems better to me.

Whoever was calling trail centre trails McTrails – please don't. A lot of mountain bikers put a lot of effort into purpose-built trails with the aim of producing trails that will be fun to ride and bring smiles to riders' faces. Comparing them to mass-produced burgers sold by bored kids who are only in it for their minimal wages is insulting to the efforts of trailbuilders.

Both great for different reasons

your all too anal 😉

I called them McTrails, and I'll continue to do so thanks. I go there for my fix of quick, easy, no hassle fun. They're just like fast food. I think the analogy is a good one. As minor trail tweaker, I perhaps have a better grasp than many of the effort that is required to make trails of any description. It doesn't change the end result though.

Are you telling me that McDonalds haven't put a lot of effort into becoming the worlds most pre-eminent fast food outlet?

When you ride round the likes of CYB what do you think about the walkers on their purpose built trails?

I used to think they were silly, and then I thought about it a bit more.

This is a brilliantly pointless thread, but for my 2 euro cents, trail centres are too easy.

Learn your trade at Nany Y Arian, and ride there when you only have an hour or so. But ASAP, go and ride some actual mountains, with rocks, and risk, and all that.

Regarding easy/hard, my friend friend has a good saying:

"if you are finding it too easy, go faster".

I have never ridden at a trail centre 😳

So, I can't really compare.

Thing is, you cant ride all-out on most natural trails as you don't know if there is someone round the corner walking up the hill.

Trail centres allow you to turn off your brain a bit and just have fun without worrying about routes or permissions or walkers/horses.

As i say, both are good 😉

Tim wrote:

Trail centres allow you to turn off your brain a bit and just have fun without worrying about routes or permissions or walkers/horses.

Not the case at my local "trail centre". You get dog walkers on the trails, families, joggers the lot!

This one always brings out the ' I'm macho and plunge off cliffs before breakfast' brigade. Each to their own, preferably both. There is no need to slag off those with different tastes to you. Ooops, that what I just did though, isn't it?

In short, trail centres are good, and so are natural trails…

…brilliant!

Thing is, you cant ride all-out on most natural trails as you don't know if there is someone round the corner walking up the hill

And what stops this happening at a trail centre?

And what stops this happening at a trail centre?

…erm signs saying "bikes only"?

One thing is for sure, I'd rather have these "purpose built" trails, than no trails at all! How many people here ever went to Wales before the trails were built.. it's a good thing all round!

…erm signs saying "bikes only"?

Never seen (or noticed) those at a trail centre, other than on a full on DH run.

If it's FC land, walkers have right of access to the whole place.

Come to think of it they aren't "bike only" only signs are they, but they do clearly label the trail as a bike trail. I've never seen any walkers on trails when I've been to Afan, CwmCarn or the 7 staines.

I've seen walkers heading up singletrack descents at Hamsterley. They're singposted as bike trails at the top, but there's nothing at the bottom and even at the top there's nothing to warn people against walking down them.

There's definitely no entry signs or similar at the ends of trail sections at Glentress. I believe there's something indicating when trails are bike-specific, too. It may not be as unambiguous as "BIKES ONLY" but it is reasonably clear.

I have encountered walkers on the bike trails at Glentress and Traquair, though. Mostly they've been apologetic when this has been pointed out. Mind you, I've seen MTBers on the walking trails at Glentress more often!

I've yet to ride a TC where Ive had to: stop/get off to go through gates

You've not ridden at Afan

Tim – Member

your all too anal

I think you'll find that's 'you're'.

😉

Try trailquesting

TQs are so yesterday. You should try MTBO instead – at least that way you tend to get to ride the interesting bits of track.

Is it wrong to ride round a trail centre with a mapboard?

Trail centres are for carebears & natural trails for real men in lycra 😀

What I really find depressing though is I know a bloke who paid £4k + for a Cube full suss at London Bike show last year and ONLY rides locally to me (Suffolk) and no where else, not even Thetford appeals to him when I offered to show him a few trails on Brandon side. What a waste, people like that should be fined!

One thing that makes me laugh is "trail centres are too busy". I ride regularily at Glentress, one of the busiest trail centres, and you know what? Once away from the carparks I see more people on my local XC loops.

joe@brookscycles – Member

"This is a brilliantly pointless thread, but for my 2 euro cents, trail centres are too easy.

Learn your trade at Nany Y Arian, and ride there when you only have an hour or so. But ASAP, go and ride some actual mountains, with rocks, and risk, and all that."

Find some better trail centres. Can't recall hearing anyone at Laggan or Fort William complaining that things are too easy. Actual mountains, rocks and risk are all available at trail centres.

miketually – Member

"And what stops this happening at a trail centre?"

Nothing. But you can't believe it's as common at trail centres as it is on non-purpose-built trails…

What I really find depressing though is I know a bloke who paid £4k + for a Cube full suss at London Bike show last year and ONLY rides locally to me (Suffolk) and no where else, not even Thetford appeals to him when I offered to show him a few trails on Brandon side. What a waste, people like that should be fined!

Why? It's his money to waste.

I like options.

When i feel like a trail centre i ride one

When i feel like natural trails I ride some.

Great.

One thing that makes me laugh is "trail centres are too busy".

That's what I was thinking.

I rode Mabie on a Sunday afternoon on the BH weekend recently and only saw three groups of riders all the way round.

I met more people on when I rode the Garburn Pass on a weekday afternoon earlier that week.

I had Lee Quarry to myself earlier…..

'Regarding easy/hard, my friend friend has a good saying:
"if you are finding it too easy, go faster".'
In the same way as if the music is crap ,play it louder…I presume.

I've enjoyed the trail centres I've ridden in wales but there are some crap ones like the bore fest that is timberland trail in brizzle.