Most of us are potential customers of a local MR team so therefore have a vested interest in this issue.

MR Teams pay VAT on most of the equipment that they purchase. This is money that needs to be raised through fundraising activities, time that could otherwise be used for training.

It would be difficult to argue against this, I think the e-petition could perhaps be used to present a slightly better argument but the key message is the same, please support it.

MRT e-Petition Government Clicky

Signed and shared on Facebook
Thanks

Didn’t know that. If asked, I would have assumed they were charities with some sort of exemption.

^me too

Mountain rescue teams’ spending on fuel, council tax, water charges, rent and other day-to-day costs are currently subject to payment of VAT. Special equipment is exempt. However, the RNLI does not pay VAT.

The RNLI make enough interest on their 100s of millions to pay for the MR teams!

Signed.

Meant to say, signed, of course, and forwarded to others.

Signed

don’t we want them to be zero rated for VAT rather then exempt? That way they can reclaim any input vat on fuel and goods they buy.

VAT exempt just means that VAT is not charged on their services but they can’t reclaim input VAT…

… just realised I’m being a total pedant, its a hard life being an accountant 😥

Signed and friendfaced FWIW

Kevevs +1

don’t we want them to be zero rated for VAT rather then exempt?

Like I said, I think the wording of the e-petition is a bit clunky but the principle is valid. I expect that sort of detail would be ironed out later on.

signed and shared

Why just mountain rescue and not all charities?

Every charity, from big organisations like Cancer Research and RNLI down to your local care home, has to pay VAT on their purchases. To add insult to injury, if a UK charity pays for, say, a fence round a game reserve in Africa, they may still have to pay VAT, even though the materials and services were sourced in Africa.

Repeated attempts to get this situation changed have met with Treasury opposition, because it’s a good earner. They would argue that charities can claim back income tax paid by the donor as part of the Gift Aid scheme. I would argue that all charities should be VAT exempt and receive Gift Aid.

Why just mountain rescue and not all charities?

To be honest this whole topic has been a learning experience for me. I had assumed all charities were “VAT exempt” and for some odd exception the mountain rescue teams were not. That seemed a bit unfair hence why I signed the petition. It’s sounding like my understanding of the situation may be completely wrong and I welcome any further enlightenment.

NOT signed for the reasons alluded to in a couple of posts above – much as I have sympathy for the MRTs, I don’t see why the VAT regime should be different for them than for all the other charities out there doing lots of different things.

Put up a petition to allow reclaimed input tax for registered charities (including MRTs), and I’ll sign. It still won’t happen, though.

Much as it irks me that I’d not done a bit more research before signing this, I still think it’s a valid and worthy petition. I’d rather have one charitable organisation completely exempt from paying VAT than none at all. A simultaneous change across the board is highly unlikely, but small changes may set a precedent that is harder to ignore.

Signed. Don’t really care if some are VAT exempt and some aren’t. MRT should be IMO.

NOT signed for the reasons alluded to in a couple of posts above – much as I have sympathy for the MRTs, I don’t see why the VAT regime should be different for them than for all the other charities out there doing lots of different things.

It is not suggesting that they should be any different, only that they would benefit from exemption :roll:. The same argument is equally valid for other charities and they are perfectly entitle to the same.

MRT gaining any form of exemption does not limit the opportunity for others to ask the same. You have to start somewhere! I think more can be gained from pursuing this from one charities point of view rather than some sort of protest vote.

It’s a service that should be supported by government in any case. I believe the Scottish Govt. Provide something in excess of £3m per year whereas the Westminster Govt. provides zero?

I believe the Scottish Govt. Provide something in excess of £3m per year

It is actually just £300k shared proportionately between 27 teams. Makes up only a small proportion of running costs (but very gratefully received!)

It is not suggesting that they should be any different, only that they would benefit from exemption :roll:. The same argument is equally valid for other charities and they are perfectly entitle to the same.

MRT gaining any form of exemption does not limit the opportunity for others to ask the same. You have to start somewhere! I think more can be gained from pursuing this from one charities point of view rather than some sort of protest vote.

Sorry, but that’s rubbish. Much as I don’t think there’s much chance of a change in the VAT regime for the third sector (and there are, unfortunately, some valid reasons beyond HM Treasury inflows for that), there is less than a tiny fraction of zero % chance they are going to turn round and say “well, that, apart from Mountain Rescue Teams, we’ll do it completely different for them, and them only.”

I think, in reality, nothing at all can be gained from pursuing this from one charity’s point of view (although it isn’t – it’s a petition saying all MRTs should get special treatment, not just one particular one)

By the way, as someone has already pointed out, exemption won’t help since nothing can be reclaimed, which I think is meant to be the point of this?

Ah – it’s over £3m to date, not per year 😳

Bump for the , hopefully less argumentative, evening crowd.

I’ve had a beer now 🙂

Some of the statements above have been somewhat simplified. Some MR team purchases are VAT free – medical equipment, vehicles and their conversion to ambulances are all VAT free. Jackets, ropes, fuel, and everything else is VAT chargeable. The RNLI is in a similar boat (pun intended), although their vessels and boat fuel is VAT free. They do have to pay VAT on ancillary items such as clothing, lifeboiat station, launch vehicle fuel etc

The no VAT for MR teams has been tested before, it failed because it would fall foul of EC law. Didn’t stop one Tory MP claiming a victory of no-VAT for MR teams. As a result a small capital equipment grant is paid to MR (England and Wales). This equates to a few hundred quid to each team annually.

When you consider the running costs of my local team are about £18k per annum, that’s without replacing any kit or capital equipment, that is an awful lot of tin rattling. Teams are incredibly good value for money, it would make sense for some sort of direct funding. (There are some voices within MR which would utterly refuse any central funding)

I doubt the e-petition will go anywhere but it won’t harm to support.

RNLI is one charity, centrally funded and top down. They employ fundraisers and some admin staff. Mountain Rescue is completely different. Each team is independent, and a charity in its own right, and fundraises for itself. There are regional ‘councils’ for want of a better word which help organise the area as a whole, and is in itself a seperate charity. Then there is the national ‘council’ MR(EW) which is also a seperate charity. It would make a lot more sense to adopt the top down model but that would be very unlikely to happen.