For those that think the sentence is soft this article in Yesterdays Independent might help dispel that notion.

This article in the Independent yesterday should help explain the regime the two damaged boys will be subject to. It didn't seem that soft to me.

Where is Henry VIII when you want him?

Feed them to the poor starving salt water crocodile … parents too.

SSsshhiiiitteeee!

😈

Kuco – Member

It really annoys me that they will get more care and help and money spent on them than their victims will.

and you know this how? Imprisoning them cost 30 000 pa so there is some money – £600 000 for the 20 yrs some folk want them to get.

The boys who were beaten will get support and help – and more than likely will recover well and easily – that sort of trauma can be dealt with well.

more than likely will recover well and easily

What a load of bollocks. Where the heck do you get your rose tinted glasses from TJ not matter what scroate or scum bag does anything wrong that is posted on here you defend them.

TandemJeremy – Member

Kuco – Member

and you know this how? Imprisoning them cost 30 000 pa so there is some money – £600 000 for the 20 yrs some folk want them to get.

The boys who were beaten will get support and help – and more than likely will recover well and easily – that sort of trauma can be dealt with well.

Henry VIII style or feed them to the crocs … priceless!

😆

I'm generally pretty right wing about most things, and with law and order I'm usually in the "hang 'em and flog 'em" camp. However these are still children, and having heard what they've been through I think they deserve another chance. It might be too late, an d maybe they are beyond help, but we owe it to them to try, after letting them grow up with scum as parents.

As for the parents, well I would flog 'em, and sterilise the pair of them too.

As for those who say "well what if they'd done it to your kids" then I'd say "well what if it were your kids that had done it".

kennyp –

"… "well what if it were your kids that had done it"".

Same … Feed them to the poor starving salt water crocs or Henry VIII style. Simple.

😈

hmmmm how many liberal wet fish? yes these boys are just boys, yes they have had a bad life, yes the social should have been on the case but THEY TORTURED AND NEARLY KILLED TWO YOUNG LADS- Are you lot mad- of course these couple of scrotes are criminals and they couldnt give a **** about it either. Let em rot- dont waste the money and energy on them that could be used to save other youngsters from a similar life.

Kuco – I am not defending the boys from anything but the lynch mob mentality.

Its my understanding that traumatised children such as the ones that are beaten in this incident can and likely will recover well. Yes tehy will need serious counselling and yes they might be mentally scared for life but children are resilient and do recover.

You on the other hand are asserting without any knowledge or evidence. Worked in the criminal justice system as I have ? worked with disturbed children as barnsleymitch has? Some understanding of psycopathic personality disorder?

Gunners – and that achieve what exactly? The two perpetrators are badly damaged CHILDREN

No your right I have no experience but I know one thing I'm with gunners hang the feckers they won't be able to do it again.

Kuco – these are children were talking about. Fu**ed up – definitely, Dangerous – certainly, evil – like I said before, I've not come up against many truly 'evil' people in my career so I'll pass on that one. I could understand it more if it was the parents you were demanding were hung, but children?

So children of ten years old that have been neglected, beaten, fed drugs, viewed violent films and porn and as a result of this appalling upbringing have committed an nasty crime should be hung? really logical that is.

The worst thing about this crime is I find myself agreeing with TJ 🙄

Out of interest, of the people saying "string them up": how many of you have kids of that age? I've got a 9 year old daughter, intelligent, pretty well adjusted (as well as any female can be 🙂 ), but she's nowhere near an adult's level of empathy, she doesn't think things through the way an adult would… There's no way I would consider her responsible enough to be tried in an adult court, were she to commit a crime.

Well I can honestly say TJ i've never been accused of thinking logical.

Sorry Mogrim.

as usual – the middle ground is – unexciting – but the correct position. obviously, stringing them up is nuts. but all this overly fashionable left wing pc nonsense drives me nuts!

and mogrim – i have kids and all i can think about is the actual victims. the poor kids that were tortured.

spending any amount of time talking about these kids (perpetrators) – is a waste.

and by the way – my 5 year old ABSOLUTELY knows right from wrong. All 10 year olds do – irrespective of upbringing.

pjbarton. some adults never learn right from wrong. go read up on psycopaths A five year old will very rarely understand right from wrong in the abstract. What she knows is what Daddy says is wrong – not the same thing and not what these kids could possibly do as their parents gave them such a warped upbringing.

The fact that children cannot understand right from wrong is why we have an age of criminal culpability.

had a rethink and am not so sure now. does evilness run in genes, or is it learnt?

"all this overly fashionable left wing pc nonsense drives me nuts!"
What do you do for a living PJ? I dont do what I do because it's fashionable FFS, I do it because I want to make a difference. I've read through every post on this thread, and unless I'm missing something, I havent read anything that suggests we give the perpetrators a cuddle and a nice holiday – some people state that they're badly damaged children that need help, the rest seem to be demanding the death sentence (which we no longer have in this country) for kids! I for one have stated that the victims should be a priority, and yes I've got kids as well – what difference does that make? The so called parents of these two had kids, and it doesnt seem to have made much difference to them. Sorry if I seem to be jumping down your throat, it just appears that unless we're agreeing that the boys should be put to death, we automatically become bleeding heart liberals.

I blame TJ.

Kuco – I'm used to it. As a white middle-class man of English protestant descent I am the oppressor personified. I ain't even ginger!

Ask any oppressed group and you will find the oppressor is a white middle-class man of English protestant descent

lol@Kuco!

All 10 year olds do – irrespective of upbringing.

My wife works with psychopaths, they have no idea that what they are doing is wrong. None. At best you can teach them that what they are doing is socially unacceptable, but it's not a lesson they actually understand, more something they do because if they don't something bad will happen to them.

With parents like the ones these kids had, what chance is there of them thinking something bad will happen to them for beating up some other kid?

TJ – i don't buy it. People who commit crimes know it's 'wrong' – morally unacceptable. but they're happy to step over the line – to varying degrees. surely no-one thinks a rapist believes it's the 'right' thing to do?!

children can be nasty but they don't take it to extremes. not normal children. incidents like this and the jamie bulger case are very rare because most kids are simply not capable of this.

all the angry nonsense press from the mail etc poisons – makes people believe there's bombers on every plane, pedophiles in every school – and murderous kids on every corner. it's not reality

Ask any oppressed group and you will find the oppressor is a white middle-class man of English protestant descent

Personally, I find that kind of generalisation fairly offensive, borderline racist. Please, no, I insist: take it back.

"and by the way – my 5 year old ABSOLUTELY knows right from wrong. All 10 year olds do – irrespective of upbringing."
I'm sorry to have to be so graphic, and I'll apologise to everyone before I say this, but I've worked with 10 year olds who have been systematically sexually abused by their parents – they didnt think it was wrong, it was 'normal' for them, because they'd lived with it for most of their young lives – dont tell me that all kids know right from wrong, it's not always the case.

TJ – i don't buy it. People who commit crimes know it's 'wrong' – morally unacceptable. but they're happy to step over the line – to varying degrees. surely no-one thinks a rapist believes it's the 'right' thing to do?!

No, they might understand it's socially unacceptable, but not necessarily morally so.

"She deserved it" is still alive and kicking as a justification for rape.

and by the way – my 5 year old ABSOLUTELY knows right from wrong. All 10 year olds do – irrespective of upbringing.

Absolutely! Lots of kids these days seem to have the mentality that they can do what they want and get away with it!

barnsleymitch – we're probably agreeing to the greater extent. i'm sure these kids need help (they're severely damaged) – i just think all the efforts – the attention – should be for the victims.

anyone genuinely suggesting the death sentence should shut up – be ashamed etc.

but wow!.. i can't bare to think of my kids hurt like this.

again – it's a balance – a few 'normal' scraps are going to happen. i'll deal with that!

i have a design agency by the way – as you asked

Until deprived, uneducated people are not grouped together in the same uneducated and deprived areas breading uneducated and deprived children this type of problem will not go away. Ultimately this and the canal behaviour occurs because parents and society do not know how to or often care about bringing their children.
There is clearly a lack of security, love and attention given to children from deprived families at an age where they need it to develop. Until this fundamental fault with society is sorted this type of behaviour will continue, this is not a modern problem but I do not think technology has helped the situation. When parents believe that an uncensored television or violet games console makes a worthy substitute for their time, love and affection children of an impressionable age will grow up to think it normal to act in violent ways and show a lack of emotion, respect and passion towards other individuals.
The tenet areas of Glasgow are a perfect example of this; hiding and ignoring the underprivileged lead to a huge influx of crime and violence. At the age of 10 all you know is the environment you have grown up in, if this is dirty, deprived and volatile then this will seem normal. Until families like this are educated, lifted from poverty and accepted into society this problem will get worse.
It is clearly not the children’s fault, they knew what they did was wrong, but not the extent of their crime. They also are not aware of the extent of their sentence. The uneducated parents are certainly to blame because they created a volatile atmosphere whilst the children grew up, but should they be punished? Surly the way families like this are left to rot on the fringes of society plays a huge part in these types of crimes, so if you really want to ‘sort out’ these kind of children education and motivation would be far more helpful than hanging or jail.

PJ – I'm just feeling overly sensitive because of what I do for a living (I work with both victims and perpetrators of acts not dissimilar to the one were talking about), and being viewed as a spineless liberal by people with (thank god) little or no experience in this field.

pj – you may not buy it but listen to an expert – barnsleymitch.

many normal children find right from wrong in the abstract hard to understand. Given the very abnormal childhood these children have had then I am confident they simply did not understand. Its about empathy and the ability to reason in the abstract – both difficult concepts and something you have to learn.

These children saw violence as normal and something to be done for entertainment

Alwyn – spot on. TJ – I'm not worthy.

These children say violence as normal and something to be done for entertainment

I'll call BS on that statement. I'm sure the mother looked happy when the father was beating on her or whatever else happened, likewise if the kids were beaten i'm sure they know how horrible it is. the kids themselves said it was because the were bored, they just didn't think about the consequences as they had probably gotten away with a ton of other stuff before this.

I still agree that it was their upbringing that made them turn out like that, but it doesn't excuse all responsibility.

well barnsleymitch – i'm sure you know plenty more about this than me – and i'm happy to shut up and drink my wine and watch billy fuc&ing piper. – i haven't read the whole thread. i would reiterate that a balanced, intelligent view point is, while uninteresting, the best place to be.

good luck for the victim's recovery.

barneslymitch – amongst the welter of ill-informed ranting on here you are the nearest we have

pjbarton – Member

. i would reiterate that a balanced, intelligent view point is, while uninteresting, the best place to be.

amen to that

" TJ – I'm not worthy." – a bit sycophantic?!

anyway – goodnight all. it's probably a good thing people care enough to talk about this stuff.