Longer (&slacker) hardtail or full suss?

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Longer (&slacker) hardtail or full suss?

13 posts & 7 voices | Started 1 year ago by marsdenman | Latest reply from epicsteve

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marsdenman - Member

Pros and cons, please.
Current bike is a 4" hardtail whippet, Fisher Ziggurat (71deg HA)
The 'Problems'
I now realise it's quicker than i'll likely be on the front - I only think and the steering moves.
I get very twitchy if i head down steep stuff...
add to that, i think i'd like a little comfort out the back but, 16 stone riding weight, and Yorkshire grit and acidic peat make up most of my riding...

(have to admit, the CRC offer on Talas, and the Carbon 456 are making me think...too much..)

oh - i guess using a 120 fork on the current bike could be an option but, will it work or, would it become a right dog....

Posted 1 year ago #
geetee1972 - Member

You've sort of got two different issues here. One is that you're not happy with how your current bike handles and the other is that you're looking for something more comfortable.

Adding suspension will allow you carry more speed downhill but that won't neccessarily cure the handling issue if you end up with an XC race bike for a full suss machine.

Similarly, you might find that a well sorted long travel hardtail like the 456 or Cotic Soul etc, with a decent fork, could allow you to carry more speed downhill than the XC race full suss.

The carbon 456 looks like an amazing bargain, but if what you wanted was a little more comfort without having to add rear suspension and you wanted a bike that handles better on fast rocky descents, then the new Titanium 456 looks like a good option. And at £799 I can't quite believe it still comes with a lifetime warranty!

Posted 1 year ago #
marsdenman - Member

geetee - thanks for that- just realised that, actually, I'm unlikely to find a more comfortable HT than than I have - it has a carbon rear triangle + seatpost..
That made me think and I now realise is troubling me is that feeling of being slowed down by those fist sized lumps that impact on a climb... that said, as I ride more, I feel better, ride 'better' and slowly lose weight so, maybe a dose of MTFU is required when it comes to rear suspension (just get a bigger tire than my Panny 2.1's!).... mmm

Posted 1 year ago #
geetee1972 - Member

MTFU? Nah, while the current crop of long travel HTs are amazing, in places like the Peak, Dales, Lakes, Scotland etc, i.e. away from built trail centres, you really do benefit from suspension front and rear.

How long have you been riding then and what do you where do you want to get to with your riding, i.e. where do you see the fun coming from? For example, for me, it's mostly about carrying absolutely as much speed as possible downhill and next it's about being out there, either locally in the Surrey Hills or out in the wilderness. So any bike I own has to be a)fast down hill and b) light enough to pedal. I have both a HT and a full suss, but I would always take the full suss north of Watford!

I can't comment on your existing bike or carbon as a material for that matter but have you tried riding a Ti frame? It really is a wonderous material to make MTBs from if you want the ultimate HT.

Posted 1 year ago #
marsdenman - Member

LOL,
riding on and of since Jesus was a lad (first proper MTB was the original Clockwork LX - canti's, thumbshifters and matt balck paint that no decal would stick too!!) Riding more now than for a long time - an hour to an hour and a half at a time, roughly twice a week, straight out the door from home...
I am noerth of Watford, none to far from the Peaks - very similar terrain I guess...
Goal is to be able to do a full STW 'get together ride' without feeling like (and being) the fat lad at the back...
Mostly wheels on the ground kind of guy, no plans whatsoever to go hitting big jumps and drops...
Appreciate full suss is good, just thik wear and tear of me + the local grit etc would be a pita.
That said, openly admit to pondering on a change of frame to full suss - so long as the vast majority of current kit would swap over - thus, possibly leaving the current HT frame as a 'winter' option.
In terms of full suss I certainly don't feel i'd need above 4" travel (rear, anyway)- keep looking at the like of the Yeti ASR (mental deal on a Jensons and one or two nice H/h ones in the classifieds recently)- right amount of travel for what I figure I need, 69 HA - but I think I would kill that back end...

Titanium - love the looks of the material but, can be pricey and, daft as it is, don't like the look of the new TI 456...

edit - to apologise for poor spelling, and the fact I CBA to go back and correct it!

Posted 1 year ago #
philjunior - Member

Ti really isn't all that.

If you want comfort go for a full sus (might want to go for more than 4" if you're after noticeably slacker angles/more relaxed geometry overall), or a suspension seatpost, or drop the pressure on the back tyre/make it wider as necessary.

Anything else will make an incredibly marginal difference, apart from perhaps a smaller frame with more seatpost showing.

MTFU might work, but if you get a full sus then you might get out more, get fitter, enjoy it more, and then get out more! (conveniently ignoring any extra maintenance)

Posted 1 year ago #
wildheart - Member

I had a similar dilemma this year and came very close to getting a Santa Cruz Superlight after riding a Chameleon for a few years.I had a cold hard look at the riding I do and realised I didn't really NEED a fs.Factor in the wear and tear on bearings/linkages etc and it was simple decision.

I went for a Cotic Soul and with the 140mm forks I'm happier on a bike than ever.

Posted 1 year ago #
geetee1972 - Member

Mate no worries - sorry I incorrectly picked up that you were new to this lark!

My dad still has one of the first generation Orange Clockworks in his garage at home. Can't have been ridden more than half a dozen times. It's the one made from Tange Prestige with a 1" headtube and old fashioned headset with lockring rather than an aheadset!

Posted 1 year ago #
I_Ache - Member

The added comfort of a full sus with more relaxed geometry but with only 100mm of travel. Sounds like your after an ST4

Posted 1 year ago #
Teetosugars - Member

Chris,

As long as I'm still riding, then you won't be the fat lad at the back...

I've been "lantern rouge" for every ride...

Posted 1 year ago #
philjunior - Member

I_Ache - I stand corrected on the 4" thing!

Posted 1 year ago #
marsdenman - Member

geetee - yep, old fahioned headset and all that - sadly, it got taken off my hand when dad's place got broken into, they left a Raleigh Mustang (neighbours bike) in it's place, stealing to order for Christmas....

MTFU might work, but if you get a full sus then you might get out more, get fitter, enjoy it more, and then get out more! (conveniently ignoring any extra maintenance)
phil - yup, that's kind of been my thoughts, though, the same does apply to the right hardtail bike scenario...

I had a similar dilemma this year and came very close to getting a Santa Cruz Superlight after riding a Chameleon for a few years.I had a cold hard look at the riding I do and realised I didn't really NEED a fs.Factor in the wear and tear on bearings/linkages etc and it was simple decision.
Wildheart - that whole statement is pretty much on my thought process - now pulling the pennies together and trying, c/w collective STW wisdom, to make the right decision... be it bouncy or hardtail...

I_ache - if I did go full suss I do like the ST4 - and many others!

Teetoo = keep riding mate! I'll gladly keep you company at the back! - Must see when I'm due a 'free' Sunday, and find out where you lot are to meet up!

Posted 1 year ago #
epicsteve - Member

Similarly, you might find that a well sorted long travel hardtail like the 456 or Cotic Soul etc, with a decent fork, could allow you to carry more speed downhill than the XC race full suss.

I've got a Cotic Soul and an Epic and while I love both bikes I'm not convinced the Soul is actually any faster downhill than the Epic - although it might be more fun. I've also got a Ti hardtail (a Zion) and while it's a nice bike it's definitely slower downhill than either.

My Enduro's are seem quite noticeably faster than my Epic downhill but they weigh a lot more so are slower uphill and on the flat stuff. The lighter and longer travel of the two (an old S-Works) is probably the most fun bike I've ever ridden though, as well as being very confidence inspiring in the technical stuff.

Posted 1 year ago #

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