As someone who's been through it. Twice. Can I just say
TJ - SHUT THE **** UP!!!!
That is all
Chat Forum
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Lilly Allen
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Posted 1 year ago #
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I think that is a fitting end post binners. </thread>
Posted 1 year ago # -
mrs ton had a miscarriage.
i always thought there was a reason when a woman has a miscarriage....kinda like the natural way for a baby not to be born.
not a thing to mourn about.....if you see what i mean.Posted 1 year ago # -
maxray - Member
TBH seems a bizarre thread to start on here.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't think I've ever (in several years of being on STW) seen someone ask why someone else has started a thread.......and then people ask why on a subject like this. Why is this not worthy of discussion?????
Part of the breavement process is talking about things and people are shooting down surfmatt for talking about what has happened to him. I really don't understand why you would want to do that? and to suggest that he would do it for vanity is just offensive. Maybe he finds it easier to talk about it this way.
My wife is currently 13 weeks and to think about this happening for the 3rd time (for us) is just unthinkable.
Some of you really need to have a good hard think about what you are saying!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
not a thing to mourn about.....if you see what i mean.
What like when someone dies - say your wife or brother or dad or best friend?Ahh well, it was just cancer/brain tumour etc, it was meant to happen.
Silly argument.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I have no problem with someone wanting to talk about their experiences even of horrible things and where I can I do my best to be supportive
What I find odd is the discussing of a celebrities miscarriage. Seems odd to me and clearly to others.
I'll butt out now but I want to be clear. I have no issue with discussing things of relevance to us or to any stwer. I find the discussion of celebrities odd.
Posted 1 year ago # -
ton, so if a kids dies of meningitis, no cause to mourn, natural - just happened for a reason kind of thing?
Posted 1 year ago # -
people are shooting down surfmatt for talking about what has happened to him
It is simply because Matt is often the fall guy in threads so the really tough kids like to gang up on him.Posted 1 year ago # -
fella's what i meant, was that in most cases a woman miscarries cos the baby is not well in the womb......and it is natures way of stopping the birth.
and how do you mourn something you have never known??Posted 1 year ago # -
TJ I will just sigh and be annoyed at myself for returning to a thread I intended to leave be.
I did think it was an odd thread to post on here, being what people can be like on the forum (your response kind of a good example).
But you asking
What on earth importance is it to us?
is just inflammatory tbh. It does have importance to the op and as it happens quite a few other people on the forum have had similar experiences.
As has been said by many if you have not been through it you really do not have any idea so please please do not pretend you do.
surfmatt if you want to get owt off your chest feel free to email me.
Posted 1 year ago # -
and how do you mourn something you have never known??
You seriously don't know the answer to that?Posted 1 year ago # -
and how do you mourn something you have never known??
rest assured Ton after scans, kicks and getting on to 9 months of preparing and anticipating you do feel like you know him/her.
Posted 1 year ago # -
and how do you mourn something you have never known
At 6 months into labour both me and my wife felt like we knew our son, his personality and his routines. Luckily William was born without problem. Its never nice to hear that other people haven't been so lucky, celeb or none celeb.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It was only a matter of time till ton posted
DezB, not having a go at you directly, I know you're not one of the bad guys, it was just my take on it...
It's a fairly undignified thread all in all. but if it helps people by getting it off their chests, then fair enough.
Posted 1 year ago # -
fella's, i have 2 kids and a grandaughter...........you do not need to tell me about loving your kids.
like i said, mrs ton had a misscarriage.....obviously for a reason, like the baby was unwell/whatever.
we were upsetlike anyone would be......but we did not mourn something we never knew.Posted 1 year ago # -
To lighten things. Last night I picked Zach up from Nursery for the first time...
'Whats his DOB please'?
16th?
Wrong, its 14th. She looked at me as though I should have cherished and tattoo'd his bloody date of birth on my forearm. Oh get real I'm not a van driving Man U fan
Posted 1 year ago # -
But that is your take Ton - glad you could accept it that way.
I remember the anxiety I had at every scan, the rushing to hospital overtaking on the wrong side of the road when my wife experienced some bleeding (which turned out to be nothing serious thank god).
Posted 1 year ago # -
You can't not mourn when you have carried a tiny white coffin Ton. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Posted 1 year ago # -
maxray......i wont argue mate. i have never been in the situation.
hope i never am either.Posted 1 year ago # -
aye,
sorry Ton, rereading that seemed like I had just tried to write something you couldnt really come back on. Didnt mean it to sound like that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I honestly don't know what to say. The ignorance of people on this forum is unbelievable. I really should know better than to come back.
Maxray, your comment is accurate and painful.
I think people need to understand the difference between a miscarriage, upsetting though that is, and loss of a baby.
You lose you future, your dreams, your ability to trust in anything good ever happening. Your life is never the same. You cannot take solace in the fact that the one you have lost had a good life and you shared happy times before the sad. It is a loss that is all consuming.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think perhaps this thread has nothing to do with Lilly Allen and everything to do with miscarriages.
Clearly its a highly emotive subject. We had a nervous time expecting our only child. Mrs Yinn was 44 at the time when she was expecting yinn jnr. We knew there were risks and there were a few scares along the way. We were lucky that he went full term, but im sure there are plenty of others in a similar age group who weren't so lucky.
My thoughts go out to anyone who has lost a child (born or unborn).Posted 1 year ago # -
just a quick word......i meant no offence to anyone with my twopenneth.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I never thought you did. You too have lost a child, everyone handles things differently, some are c'est la vie, others seek reasons why. No one forgets.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You lose you future, your dreams, your ability to trust in anything good ever happening. Your life is never the same. You cannot take solace in the fact that the one you have lost had a good life and you shared happy times before the sad. It is a loss that is all consuming.
Totally spot on.
We held ours when he was born. A true knot in his cord, the cord that gave him life, wrapped around his neck and the knot tightened as he grew - so it took his life away so close to his due date. My wife had to carry him around dead for two days then be induced. He was perfect in every way. We buried him in a churchyard nearby and see him most days.
How on earth can you not mourn something like that? How on earth can the above scenario be "ill/not right/etc?" In that case, why do disabled babies survive given that utterly ludicrous and actually incredibly dumb "theory" of yours then ton?
Anyway getting a bit washed away with it all now.
The positives of this thread are that a few of us have shared an utterly cr4p experience. One that others find hard to talk about (even close friends clam up) and deal with.
Just had a scan as my wife is 26 weeks gone - only a sonic one. All fine but we SH1T ourselves for each hospital visit. It's a HUGE wind up but not as bad as the pregnancy for our lovely little 2 year old. We were complete nervous wrecks for that but all was fine in the end.
Honestly people - the ones not equipped with a shred of emotional intelligence, the ones daring to have little cr4ppy digs despite the subject matter - just leave it to those who have experienced the same.
Losing one at 12 weeks was gutting but NOTHING compared to losing a baby son who was perfectly healthy to some freak horrible disaster.
Some of you just need to find that button - the one that says "maybe I shouldn't post this?" and press it HARD.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Nobody should have to carry the body of their child in a tiny coffin, my uncle had to do it twice (lost first to cot death, the second to cancer/leukemia aged 2)... never had so much respect for another man.
my heart gos out to all of you who have lost a child at any stage of pregnancy or their youth.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If any of you guys ever need to talk your experiences through then the Child Death Helpline on 0800 282 986 has volunteers who will listen. The lines are staffed by parents who have been in the same dark place as many who have posted on here.
When you lose a child, either pre or post birth, there is a part of you that dies with it. People deal with it in different ways. There is no right or wrong, just the way that suits you. I've been asked "How do you get over something like that?" The simple answer is you don't. You learn to live with it.
Mat, I wouldn't be too hard on ton. He has rationalised things based on his own experiences, not yours. Oh, and good luck. Another few weeks and we'll be expecting pictures of the happy event.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Before I was born, I had a brother that died when he was 16 days old. It had been a normal pregnancy, but they realised when he was born that his heart was effectively back to front. 32 years ago there wasn’t a huge amount they could do about it, so he slipped away. With my older brother asking where the baby was and my dad burying himself with work, my mother bottled her grief, tried to put on a brave face, and carried on as normal, and had me two years later. Two years after that, she had a psychotic breakdown from which she never fully recovered.
If people need/want to talk about it, then let them talk. Also, I think in a way it is particularly hard for fathers – they’re expected to be ‘strong’ for the mother, pretty much everyone’s attention is focused on the mother, and sometimes the father’s treated a bit like a spare part. Some might say that a mountain biking forum isn’t the best place, but if not here, where? Sometimes it’s easier to talk to strangers about it rather than friends or family.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What on earth importance is it to us?
How I interpret this, is that in the General Scheme of Things, with so much tragedy happening all around us, all over the World, why is the suffering of one celebrity any more important than the suffering of anyone else? Quite frankly, the only reason the media reports such things is to sell newspapers/magazines, TV and radio airtime and internet space.
When I first noticed this particular story, on the BBC website, my immediate thought was how absolutely devastating it must be to Lily and her partner, and how utterly 'wrong' it seems for anyone to lose a child. Then, I wondered just how 'big' a story it would become. The cult and spectacle of celebrity is now at such an extreme state, that people seem to live out their lives by proxy; that a celebrity suffering the same as them somehow enables their own personal grief to be witnessed by millions, that the whole world can now see what a terrible tragedy they themselves have suffered.
This is what I see happening on this thread. Personally, I think it shows only too well, that we shouldn't suffer alone. But maybe people should consider that others won't necessarily be uncaring, or insensitive, and that they can and will in fact be supportive and caring. I think it's a sad indictment of our society, that our 'communities' are so small that we don't feel supported enough, in dark times. I think one particular recent event has perhaps illustrated this fact only too well. But if people feel that they need to use an internet forum, of all things, to show their feelings, then why not? Let them. If they can somehow find some form of comfort in that sharing process, then let's welcome that. Make them feel that they can, and they don't have to feel so alone.
But by the same token; people must also understand that for others, life carries on. That one person's tragedy may be of complete insignificance to another. That's how the World is; we only have so much compassion to share round. And any discussion of such an emotive subject is bound to bring up strong feelings and emotions; that's inevitable. But if you are going to raise a subject, then you must appreciate that someone else's comments may not be what you absolutely want to hear, and it's not that that person is being nasty or insensitive, but that they feel they have opinions that they also want to share. And regardless of the subject, surely they are entitled to air their own views, as much as you are?
I do think people on both 'sides' here could perhaps have been more sensitive, but surely it's good that such things are being discussed? I think they key thing is that perhaps people need to show, and earn, more respect for one another in general, in order that threads such as this don't descend into petty bickering and the need for 'point scoring'.
But it's not an ideal World, is it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Coyote - okay, I see your viewpoint but the comment was pretty naive.
Mrs Toast - grim, really grim. Must have been and clearly was, devastating.
I didn't ever feel it was any harder on me - felt we had all the support we needed and invented ways of coping with it all. IMO my wife dealt with far more than I ever did and I never had a shred of feeling in her shadow. We were in it together - that was it. We took the same path, tried not to "fall off" (to depression) and managed to make it to the other side. Terrible to lose a baby, even worse for one partner to be "lost" to depression.
Elfin - well said too.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Elfin that's the best post I've seen on here in a long time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
We were in it together - that was it.
That's the key. It doesn't matter how much external support you get, you need to be there for each other. I would however disagree about being "lost" to depression. Some individuals manage loss different than others and whilst a couple can be incredibly strong together and support each other, there is no shame if one half needs a little more than emotional support can offer.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Elfin - An eloquent and sensitive post. Very well said.
Posted 1 year ago #
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