http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
Good on the pilots for refusing and defecting. Very grim times
Chat Forum
[closed]
Libyan jets ordered to bomb protesters
-
Posted 1 year ago #
-
I blame Thatcher.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago # -
That's a bit unfair Woppit. Whilst Thatcher was indeed an ardent supporter of tyrannical dictatorships in the Middle East. And her son Mark did make £12 million selling arms to the Saudi totalitarian regime when Mummy was Prime Minister. She was simply helping promote the arms industry and defending "vital US interests".
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think we're about to find out whether supporting tyrannical dictatorships was a good idea or not.
Posted 1 year ago # -
i suppose it does leave the question, what will be the replacement. much of the Arab world is run by dictators/monarchies.
Previous events led to the overthrow of the Shah and that obviously went down well with the US, what happens if the revolution spreads to Saudi?
Posted 1 year ago # -
what happens
ifwhen the revolution spreads to Saudi?Posted 1 year ago # -
Previous events led to the overthrow of the Shah and that obviously went down well with the US, what happens if the revolution spreads to Saudi?
Bicycle sales go up?Posted 1 year ago # -
much of the Arab world is run by dictators/monarchies.
Yep, I've also noticed the lack of "liberal democracies" in the region.
Funnily enough though, there is no region anywhere in the world where the US has more direct influence.........so I wonder how that happened ?
And to give an example of just how awesome US influence is in the region :
The most expensive "no" in history
Saying "no" the US can be very very expensive.
Posted 1 year ago # -
not wanting to be flippant about such a serious matter, but...
it sounds like "Rock The Casbah" come to life
Posted 1 year ago # -
The Morroccan King has answered the request to "give up some of his powers". He said "No", apparently.
"Cromwell, Cromwell. All I hear is "Cromwell""...
Posted 1 year ago # -
5thElefant - Member
Previous events led to the overthrow of the Shah and that obviously went down well with the US, what happens if the revolution spreads to Saudi?
Bicycle sales go up?
That may well be one of the funniest responses I have read on STW.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Revolution, in all of it's glory! wonder who's behind it and what they want
The whole world is getting shafted, it's just that most people are too distracted with all the day to day crap, to realize it!
If things improve for these people, it's a good thing, if they don't, it isn't!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Wonder if they will hand abdel baset al megrahi back now?
On a serious note though, I wonder if we are witnessing the start of WW3? They cant kick all the governments out of these countries and expect them to all run sweetly.
All very interesting but at the same time very worrying for the next few years.
Posted 1 year ago # -
On a serious note though, I wonder if we are witnessing the start of WW3? They cant kick all the governments out of these countries and expect them to all run sweetly.
one thing I've always noticed is that the guys at the top rarely volunteer for martyrdom missions
who had the (obviously distasteful and culturally ignorant) joke about heaven running out of virgins and there being cut backs
The danger seems to be that they may blow themselves up as their sectarian hatred makes "The Troubles" look restrained which the long slow drip drip of sectarian suicide bombings in Iraq etc
I imagine the average person wants what everyone wants, a nice comfortable life with opportunities for the kids etc. Notice how these revolutions are being driven by the "twitter/ SMS/ internet" generation not the mosques etc
Posted 1 year ago # -
Err, Egypt will run fine as will Tunisia and Morrocco.
Libya is going to be a real pit.
The main reason Iraq has been mired in shit goes back to the established Police/Army infrastructure being torn down.
No one will trust the Libyan security forces now...after this. The country will become a war zone for upto a Decade.
That is.....until America steps in to secure the oil thus getting one back on BP who won a contract with Gadafi....
Posted 1 year ago # -
hora, why will egypt, morroco and Tunisia be fine? These are all countries which have minorities that might see now as the only chance for what they want.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Moroccans are watching very carefully what's happening in Libya and elsewhere and people are talking about a pan Arab democratic revolt. Things were very tense here yesterday in Marrakech, Macdonalds got ransacked and for hours crowds were protesting and seemed to be unopposed by the police although there was a police presence in Gmaa el Fna this morning. We live in interesting times.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Doesn't Dave have arms manufacturers there with him on his democracy tour? It's a good chance for future stakeholders to get their orders in now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Some horrendous pictures floating about on twitter showing mutilated bodies, more than small arms in use there.
Thats of course if they are real - they do look very real though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
As already mentioned at a very crass level this is Rock the Casbah.
Or Rock el Casbah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJkGQps1lrs
Serious level - good on the defecting pilots; US very quiet apart from Hilary; Israel very quiet about all the revolutions (Tunis, Egypt, Libya, Bahrain, Yemen, Morocco). Massive oil rich power vacuum to be filled... no wonder US & Israel quiet. Will they go western democracy or more likely fundamentailst religous state? (History would suggest fundamentalist state route - think fall of Shah of Iran...)
UAE will not be involved in 'revolution'; certain western govts have too much to lose if it does.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Better the devil you know sometimes...
Posted 1 year ago # -
History would suggest fundamentalist state route - think fall of Shah of Iran
different world to 1979 now
No one will trust the Libyan security forces now...after this. The country will become a war zone for upto a Decade.
can't understand why they did it. In Egypt they came out of it respectably.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Will they go western democracy or more likely fundamentailst religous state?
Fundamentalist religious states like Saudi Arabia ? ........ I doubt it. More likely illiberal democracies imo. For the short term future anyway. And almost certainly with a cooler attitude towards the US/West.....if the people have any say - which they undoubtedly will.
Posted 1 year ago # -
And almost certainly with a cooler attitude towards the US/West.....if the people have any say - which they undoubtedly will
why? half the male population <30 is expected to be in boats halfway across the Med by the end of the year
is Twitter islamic?
do these countries not need cash to replace the money fleeced off them, who are they going to sell oil too? (other than the chinese and indians etc)
I imagine any "powers" foriegn policy is in tatters in the area as they won't have a clue who to talk to.
just thoughts
More likely illiberal democracies
isn't this how you would describe the UK?
Posted 1 year ago # -
isn't this how you would describe the UK?
The UK was certainly an illiberal democracy before it became a liberal democracy. And the liberties and rights of individuals weren't simply "granted".......they had to be fought for - invariably for many years and in the face of huge opposition.
But today the UK can be described as a liberal democracy. Something which she can afford to allow - as power, wealth, and influence, are all strictly controlled and guaranteed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
do these countries not need cash to replace the money fleeced off them, who are they going to sell oil too?
They will sell oil to the US and the West - of course they will. Venezuela sells most of its oil to the US, but they are hardly "buddies".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who said the UK is a Democracy?
Are you sure we are a true democracy?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well, on election day I could vote for whoever I wanted without fear of any recriminations. I could also stand to be elected myself if I so desired, so I think that yes, the UK is a democracy
Posted 1 year ago # -
Maybe you are right however we are still ruled by a Sovereignty (you may say its only a figurehead) however don't our armed/security services serve her and pledge an allegiance?
In addition how come ex Prime Ministers/Ministers can become so rich?
Lucrative 'speaking tours'?
Reads to me as networking/paid for services rendered and buying someones contacts.
Recently we read of the ex Somerset council Chief Executive who was paid £600 last year. How? Hes there to serve the people.
Then we come to our boys. Sent out to die on soil that will never see freedom. Whilst defence companies prosper.
Why do we support regimes that do not have democracy? Is it called turning a blind eye?
Whilst defence companies prosper.Going back to Soveriengty of a different type, doesn't Brussels tell us to jump? Who makes these decisions? Did we vote for the decision makers in Brussels?
Where was out referendum that Labour promised us?I may be incorrect on multipoints on the above however it my view, we are not a Democracy.
Posted 1 year ago # -
That is.....until America steps in to secure the oil thus getting one back on BP who won a contract with Gadafi....
BP are an American company.
I may be incorrect on multipoints on the above however it my view, we are not a Democracy.
Maybe? But it's probably the closest you'll get to democracy in the UK...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Better the devil you know sometimes...
Better for who? Do you mean we're safer if other people are oppressed? Are you OK with that? Would you personally do a bit of oppression on our behalf?
Posted 1 year ago # -
we are still ruled by a Sovereignty
We aren't. Any pledges of alliegiance are just using the Queen as a symbol. Like the flag in the USA. If the Queen tried to actually do anything it'd be over-ruled and I think there are even laws covering this dating back to Queen Vic.
Why do we support regimes that do not have democracy?
Because democracy is not a synonym for 'good'. And the world has a lot of problems that can't be solved with free and fair elections, as Bush and Blair found out to our cost. Were you not watching?
We are a democracy. We are not perfect, and this is not the Culture, but it's as good as it gets currently. Our govt and its policies will change if we vote one way or the other - democracy.
Again, democratic does not necessarily mean progressive, enlightened, philanthropic or any of that stuff.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Why the constant updates on the Princes's?
Why the public holiday for a Prince's wedding?
Why the pledge of allegiance to the crown?
Why can't we have a Republic?
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
