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1. Sancho - Member

   Ive been following the news about different countries squabbling about who will get oil contracts, the recognition of the NTC etc.

   I know we (UK) will get flamed for "regime change in the name of Oil"
   But its interesting to see how all the other countries in the world have their vested interests and their statements about the old v new regime have all been based on who is giving them money.

   From the ANC to the AU who are being bank rolled by Gadaffi to the Chinese and Russians moaning that they wont get a piece of the pie because they supported Gaddafi, to the Italians whose oil fields and terminals were never damaged, to the US who will be paying money to the NTC via contractors for rebuilding work.

   Personally I think we have come out of it looking fairly respectable and I think we have done the right thing.

   Again I expect different opinions, its just a view based on the limited information I have from the media (who are sensation hunting dick wads)

   Posted 9 months ago #
2. granny_ring - Member

   try the next button to the right

   Posted 9 months ago #
3. Sancho - Member

   ha oh yeah

   Posted 9 months ago #
4. Lifer - Member

   Personally I think we have come out of it looking fairly respectable and I think we have done the right thing.

   I don't think so at all. I also think it's a long way from over, I hope it is, but I suspect not.

   The end of an excellent article by Flying Rodent sums things up for me:

   Further, it remains entirely true that, for the second time in a decade, the UK has jumped into a war with its fingers crossed, entirely on the reassurances of western-educated locals who don't appear to represent the populace. That's why western diplomats have spent the last three months quietly whispering to the papers that the Libyan rebels are a disparate group with massive internal differences. If you've got no idea what's going to happen next in North Africa - democracy or interfactional bloodbath - then congratulations! You and David Cameron have something in common after all.

   Whether you find that worrying depends on whether you have an attention span longer than five seconds. There's no need to reiterate the long catastrophes that are Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq, but let me put it this way - were you aware that the Iraqi government is quietly supporting the Syrian government's ultraviolent crackdown on its citizens?

   ...

   Well. If you, like me, were flabbergasted that Britain stampeded to involve itself in another serious conflict, just years after presiding over one of the nastiest mass-murder sprees in recent history, then steel yourselves for sequels. It took decades of boo-hoo propaganda and flag-waving for the Yanks to get over the disaster of Vietnam - it's taken us about a tenth of the time and none of the self-reflection to dick off one of our most inglorious warfaring episodes to dive into what could be a whole series of new ones.

   Seriously, y'all. If we were that belligerent, that eager to dive into this war after one of the most horrifying military ****-ups in our history, imagine how can-do chaps we're going to be for the next decade. Excellent news for Libyans means interesting times ahead for British squaddies, I think. War is the new normal.

   War is the new normal

   Posted 9 months ago #
5. grum - Member

   Personally I think we have come out of it looking fairly respectable and I think we have done the right thing.

   Again I expect different opinions, its just a view based on the limited information I have from the media (who are sensation hunting dick wads)

   Surprising that you would hold this view based on our state propaganda unbiased news sources.

   Honestly, the BBC seems to have been amazingly gung-ho about the whole thing - balance seems to have gone out of the window.

   Posted 9 months ago #
6. Sancho - Member

   I must admit Ive been following this quite a lot but been watching Al-Jazeera, Russia Today etc not just the beeb and the Sun.

   I think the no-fly zone was always an excuse to get rid of Gadaffi, and Personally I think that it was a good thing that we supported the uprising to get rid of him.
   I dont think we will get carried away with our abilities to wage another war against Syria etc, but I hope the Libyan people will get their country back and we will leave them to it (obviously with our and the rest of the worlds vested interests still intact.)

   Posted 9 months ago #
7. Lifer - Member

   I think the no-fly zone was always an excuse to get rid of Gadaffi, and Personally I think that it was a good thing that we supported the uprising to get rid of him.

   I find it troubling that we took sides in a civil war without knowing anything about who we were/are supporting.

   Posted 9 months ago #
8. buzz-lightyear - Member

   War Is Peace, Ignorance Is Strength, Freedom Is Slavery

   Posted 9 months ago #
9. bennyboy1 - Member

   Yet another classic case of OxBridge graduate civil servants with completely inappropriate Imperialistic views putting words in easy listening Tory ears... It's complete nonsense on the basis of what's happened in Libya that we (UK) isn't doing exactly the same for Palestinians and voting for a UN no fly zone for Israel to limit it's unlawful occupation and continued bombing of Palestine(which the UK mainstream media seems 'bored' of reporting on now)... feel pretty sickened by the Western world's actions in Libya - merely smash & grab in a slightly less obvious way than previously (Iraq & Afganistan) and getting someone else (rebels) to do the smashing...

   Posted 9 months ago #
10. Sancho - Member

    Totally agree on Palestine, I abhore the Israeli occupation of Palestine, Our history there is shameful.

    Posted 9 months ago #
11. oliverd1981 - Member

    [quote]I find it troubling that we took sides in a civil war without knowing anything about who we were/are supporting. [quote]

    We were supporting Oil, We always do.

    Posted 9 months ago #
12. kimbers - Member

    i think its very naive to suggest that the uk comes out of this smelling of roses, no uk boots on the ground apart from 'advisors' and those rpgs ive seen randomly fired into tripoli appartment blocks by some very suspect looking 'rebels' were quite likely bought with cash we loaned them
    and dont be sucked in by the fallacy of 'precision' airtstikes
    only now are we beginning to see the civilian casulaties exposed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14687658
    and the tories voted for wars in iraq and afgahnistan too, youd think theyd have learnt their lesson, i mean how does iraq look today?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14674555
    yet the limpdems were strangely silent when we started bombing libya?

    Posted 9 months ago #
13. globalti - Member

    I wonder where Ali Abdel Baset Al Megrahi is? Probably relaxing by the pool and feeling grateful that prostate cancer usually progresses so slowly that in the UK at least, we don't bother operating on old men for it any more.

    Still, prison in Scotland was a hell of a price to pay for being the fall guy for somebody else.

    Posted 9 months ago #
14. anokdale - Member

    I have a different view based on the fact i have worked in Libys for two years and left in Feb, since then i have come back on numerous occasions supporting media teams in Misurata, the Jebel Nafusa etc.

    Last week when we drove down Garrgarish road in Tripoli with the rebels the Libyans out on the street say to me it was worth it, i have never seen so many Libyans smiling , you never got that before.

    This week just watching folk with kids walking around the once secret buildings belonging to the Gadaffi clan smiling, talking about freedom etc and those same people thanking everyone for helping them makes it worthwhile.

    The loss of life and some of the things we are filming are as bad as i have seem in Bosnia etc but the Libyans will tell you you have to sacrifice something for this. Yesterday we were out of drinking water and we saw a guy with a six pack of bottled water, in my crap Arabic i asked where he had bought it, without hesitation he tried to give us his water, that is the true Libyan they are grateful for the help of NATO etc

    The best news this AM is that two of the Local guys who worked in our office and were arrested 4 months ago for living in the wrong area have turned up safe and well.

    Posted 9 months ago #
15. Pook - Member

    Anokdale - thanks for that. An interesting insight. I don't know how stw will handle someone who actually knows what he's talking about though!

    Posted 9 months ago #
16. beagle - Member

    Hehe. Well said Pook..

    Posted 9 months ago #
17. anokdale - Member

    Check out our teams stuff Lindsey Hillsom on channel 4,, we got to the tunnels first

    Posted 9 months ago #

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