We have loads of downlighters in our house (over 40!) – as some of these are left on for long periods I was wondering if there are any good LED replacements yet or is there something better on the horizon that will help save the planet?

There are but they’re not cheap, try ultraleds.co.uk

I use these all over my house. They are only 3.6W, last for ages and are very nearly as bright as a 50W Halogen. The warm white version is little more white than a halogen, but only just and this combined with the slight loss in light are very small sacrifices to pay for the efficiency. I’m over the moon with them.

I’d suggest buying one or two, to test with first before taking the plunge. Buying 20 at a time brings tears to your eyes!

I’ve replaced most of my gu10’s with leds. After trying about 5 or 6 different types I found the exergi ones posted above are the best.

Saves loads of leccy but the light quality isn’t as good as halogen, even the warm white ones are still quite white. Power is still lacking too so where you maybe had 4 halogen spots you’ll need 6 led’s, but they are improving.

I would say they’re great for kitchens, bathrooms etc but the technology needs to move on a bit before its a true replacement.

Sam, those look interesting. The main place I’m thinking of changing them is inthe kitchen where there are 9 lights and according to this part of one buyers review cost about 8p/hour to run:

I have one of those electricity monitors and with halogens my kitchen/dining room was costing 8p per hour to light. With LEDS the reading remains unchanged so I assume less than 1p an hour.

So according to those figures and an average of 5 hours use per day in the winter, the payback time should be in the region of 75 days……. which is not very long!

£180 to replace 9 bulbs is a shocker though 😯

edit: £189 + vat 😯 😯

a 3.6 w led is nowhere near a 50 w halogen in output.

So how many lumens does an incandesent 50w lamp put out then?
During a power cut a few weeks back I used my 2 x 1000 lumen LED bike lights to light the front room & they looked a lot less than CFL that normally do the job (difficult to take in to account the tighter beam angle of the LEDs though)

Try your local B&Q – 3W warm white GU10s about £18. Seem to be the same colour light as a halogen, and I’d guess about equivalent to or slightly brighter than 25W comparing it to the other lights we have in our bathroom. Can’t find them on the B&Q web site though, you have to go to a shop.

Edit – now only £14.48 on the web site – I’m sure I paid £18 last week!

TJ – I disagree. It is very much near a 50W halogen, but definitely less (as I said above). You’ve tried these bulbs have you?

I’ve got some compact fluorescent GU10’s in the kitchen, they take a minute or so to get up to full brightness but then the light output isn’t too bad and they’re a lot cheaper than LED’s. They’re a different shape to normal GU10’s though so may not fit all types of fitting.

Been playing with these at work (I’m a lighting designer).

Sadly they’re still sh!te compared to oldskool dichroics. Warm white’s are significantly dimmer for a given wattage than cool whites, and the quality of light and colour rendering is just nasty. Fine for a utility area (but then you’d aready have compact florrys there), but not for anywhere I’d want to work or have to look at. Also be aware that some of the beam angles are MUCH wider than a normal lamp, so although the output figure may be high, it’s spread over a much bigger area than you’re expecting.

Things are getting better though… Another year or 2 and we’ll be there.

We changed loads of ours for the LED ones but have changed them all back cos the light quality wasn’t as good. The light felt like you were in a shop if you know what I mean, not relaxing.

Ultraleds claim 5w LED = 40w incandecent, and I see that they do 7w (60w) and 8w (75w)LED’s now.
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/gu10-240v-c-92_95.html

I’ve got some compact fluorescent GU10’s in the kitchen, they take a minute or so to get up to full brightness but then the light output isn’t too bad and they’re a lot cheaper than LED’s. They’re a different shape to normal GU10’s though so may not fit all types of fitting.

We went down this route too. From our batch of 8 £10 each screwfix ones, 3 died within 6 months. As each dies I go back to good old fashioned high energy to save some money.

sam_underhill – Member

TJ – I disagree. It is very much near a 50W halogen, but definitely less (as I said above). You’ve tried these bulbs have you?

No but I have played with leds a fair amount a 3.6 w led will be around a 20 w halpogen output. No where near a 50.

According to the links in Dibbs post they are claiming 360 lumen for the 5 w. I am certain that is optimistic as it will be theroetical max not actuall measured output. Actual output will be around 2/3 that.

halogen is around 20 lumen / watt – so a 50 w halogen will be around 1000 lumen.

Dibbs – that 8W LED – it’s an 88° beam angle, compared to a typical MR16 which is either 24° or 36°. Consequently for a given throw distance, a LOT less light will hit the surface you’re wanting to light.

As TJ says, the 3.6W LEDs are as close to a 20W halogen in light output that you can’t tell. Doubt it’s anything like a 50W, but we rarely used these because of the way they chewed through bulbs and electricity at about an equal rate. These LEDs are vastly different to the hippy ones you can pick up at Aldi for a fiver.

When we renovated our kitchen we replaced all the halogen lights with a mixture of those 3.6W LEDs and LED tape under the cabinets. Place is like the inside of the sun now and uses less than 40W.

LED tape: http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/self-adhesive-warm-white-leds-metre-lumen-p-1632.html

I like that tape flaperon is it idiot proof?
I’d just need the tape, USMTSC and USMTST plug it together with a transformer and hey presto?

Can I mix standard halogen and LED bulbs on the same circuit

Donk – yep, you just cut the length you need and solder directly to the tape. There are tinned solder points every 10cm or so where the tape is designed to be cut.

nickf – not on a specific LED transformer. On a normal 12v transformer, yes. If you take out all the halogen lights, you’ll probably need to get a LED transformer anyway due to the low load.

Dibbs – that 8W LED – it’s an 88° beam angle, compared to a typical MR16 which is either 24° or 36°. Consequently for a given throw distance, a LOT less light will hit the surface you’re wanting to light.

Don’t worry at £32 a go I won’t be trying to prove you wrong in the near future 😆

We had our basement converted last year, and the electrician said LED’s were too expensive and not up to scrath… I think it was more that he had never even really considered them!

However it is some thing I have wondered. The basement currently has 18 50w spots, which are on probably 4 hours a day currently, 4 possibly more hours per day which are recessed into the newly plasterboarded ceiling.

Can you literaly just unscrew the standard 50w and put a LED in its place, or do you need to put transformers etc in too?

Would I save much cash, and would they let out enough light?

The search for a suitable repalcement for halogen/carbon filament has been going on for some time and is accelerating almost daily. There are two basic ways to go in respect of downlights, one towards low energy lamps which can go straight into GU10 fittings albeit they do stick out a bit. In the past the criticism of these has been they take time to warm up, they don’t give out as much light, they flicker and they have a horrible light which makes you look like a corpse. Check out Megaman branded lamps, they are now very good and are rapidly increasing their downlight market share.

The other area is LED’s. Generally these will be complete new fittings, and will stiff you in the region of £70- £80 plus vat per unit for a reasonable quality product. They are now highly effective and pretty much as good as halogens in every way except energy consumed, where they are substantially cheaper to run, like 16 or 17 times cheaper.

Personally I’d sit on my hands for a few months, as I would expect all of the prices to come down as bigger volumes get made/sold. The Lighting market os very competitive, and when the ball starts rolling you will be amamzed how fast prices will change.

(In the biz)

The hotel I’m in has fittings recessed into the ceiling that take standard BC CFLs – the thin ones though. Or at least, that’s what it looks like.

Can you literaly just unscrew the standard 50w and put a LED in its place,

Yes.

Would I save much cash

Yes if you have a few of them. Probably about £7 per bulb per year saving (based on 4hrs per day 50w bulb not including cost of bulb).

and would they let out enough light?

Probably not. You can increase the number of bulbs to compensate though.

I’m selling loads of 7W WW LEDs, the light is a credible replacement for 50W GU10s and dichroics.
The 5W versions are fine for living rooms and hallways.

Also just got the first 7W dimmable LEDs, but the bodies are sightly longer and require a dedicated fire rated fitting. Obviously not an issue if you are putting them in the older open backed downlights.

Those LEDs above seem expensive?

I got 8 x 3W LEDs for my kitchen, they RAWK, £6 each online somewhere.

Is you a bat?

I would frown intensively if any lighting designers who do work for me suggested fitting halogens on any of my jobs. The alternatives are now here and the only reason Halogens are still being used is due to their cheapness to install.

There is no need to use Halogen any more, plenty of alternatives that pay for themselves in the long run.
I work for an LED lighting company and see so much crap its unreal!
Lots of Myths on LED tho… biggest problem is that people bend the truth on output.
MR16 (12v Dichroic) is 1000 lumens out the box (If its a good lamp) however that includes the light that comes out the back (wasted in your ceiling) and doesnt account for a fairly rapid drop off in output. They will also be lucky to last 2000hrs and have no guarantee.

LED Lamps are generally best of a bad bunch, as we all know LEDs get rather warm and the heatsinks just cant cope on most of the lamps, giving reduced lamp life and possible output.
Philips Masterled is only 45000ish with a 12 month guarantee. This means at 45000hrs it will have 70% of its original brightness and a Max 50% failure rate. Most also only hit the 300Lumen mark and flicker on dimming. (if dimmable at all!)

You should fit a full fitting if you can, something like this Halers

These are 7.9W, 75,000hr lamp life (at only 10% drop in output, 10% failure rate) They also have a 7yr Guarantee. Natural white is 425 lumens and really is on par with a 50w 12V dichroic.
Available in the new year in dimmable on any mains dimmer (No 1-10V feed needed!) There also fully Fire Rated and IP65 (use in shower room)
Having the heatsink on the PCB means we can run harder for longer with less thermal throttling.
Ask trout etc… Im sure they’ll agree its heat that causes a lot of the problems!

The lamps that dibbs pointed out are worth a look if you want cheap alternatives, but trust me, they wont last! Most of them have been flown in with no consideration for the low temperatures at 35000ft knackering the electronics before you even plug them in!

I think theres an opening here for DealExtreme. 🙂