Learning on the Motorway

Long overdue imo.

Edit; I went through my bike test earlier this year and I would have liked to have had some tuition on the m/way despite many years driving experience. IAM etc. When you think you know it all, that’s when you’re in trouble.

Should be the minimum!
Along with night driving and poor weather.
Add off-road training prior to road too. (Off road as in secure safe area not mud)

When I was learning to drive it was always the case that they recommended that after you passed your driving test you should take some additional motorway lessons. Perfectly sensible idea to me, though not keen on learner drivers going on the motorways before they’ve passed their test. Passing the test is a marker that you’ve achieved a required minimum standard which should be achieved before you’re allowed on a motorway, and cluttering up the motorways even more doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

Ironically though there is nothing complicated about driving on motorways. They are far easier than driving on a busy single carriageway A road with junctions all over the place, pedestrians, cyclists and a whole host of other things to look out for that you don’t get on Motorways.

I’m always a bit indifferent about this. There are plenty of two and three lane dual carriageways that could be (and are) used to give learners experience on multi lane roads. Nobodys who’s recently passed their test drives in the middle lane because they think that’s the right thing to do. They do it because it’s slightly easier and they don’t care about the inconvenience caused to others, the same reason that ‘veteran’ drivers do it.

Including motorway driving in lessons won’t fix incorrect lane discipline any more than introducing numeracy tests would stop speeding.

We need graduated licences.

There is nothing to stop someone starting to learn to drive in say March and they can then go through all their lessons and pass before the winter. Loads of people never drive in the dark till they pass, let alone bad weather.

Graduated licences would prevent that with the student having to learn for at least 12 months for example.

@wobbliscott

I disagree, the spatial awareness at speed amongst lanes is a learned skill.

Not straightforward.

There are plenty of two and three lane dual carriageways that could be (and are) used to give learners experience on multi lane roads.

But for what sort of distance? Many parts of the country only have short lengths of dual carriageway, and even less with three lanes, which is a motorway.
Wiltshire, for example, only has the M4 across the very northern part of the county, and the A303 across the most southerly part of the county, any other dual carriageways are pretty short, maybe five or six miles at most, the A419 from Swindon up towards Cirencester is the only extended length in the north I can think of.

Not sure it is a quantum leap from dual carriageways, which also have junctions, lights etc, whilst still having the lateral spatial awareness thing.

While it all sounds great in theory, then try and put it into practice…

We’re over an hour from the nearest motorway, and at least 40 mins from even a dual-carriageway.

And graduated licences, what can’t drive in the dark until you’ve driven 12 months? Bollox’d in Scotland then as it means no driving after 1530 or before 0830 at this time of year.

They also mentioned 120 hours of lessons, so +£2500!

Merak – not disagreeing that there is a skill that needs to be learned with motorway driving, but I just think and would prefer learners to have passed the normal test first. Maybe enforce a green L plate system where you have green L plates that mean you can drive but not on the Motorway until you pass a specific Motorway test. One step at a time. You can simulate Motorway conditions on a Dual Carriageway anyway so learner drivers can be familiarised and taught the required skills without going on a motorway.

Definitely think that motorway test should be introduced. It seems crazy that you can pass your test then be let loose on a Motorway on your own on the way back from passing your test. Having said that the official statistics say that motorways are the safest roads on the network so maybe it’s a load of fuss about nothing.

I’ve never really understood the motorway thing. Yes, there are dual carriageways that are very different. But there are also many that are virtually indistinguishable for all intents and purposes. The A1, for example.

Graduated licenses or minimum learning periods (not hours) don’t prove anything. I had my provisional license for a couple of years before I could afford lessons.

For anyone who hasn’t bothered to read the proposal motorways for learners would be restricted to dual control vehicles with a qualified instructor supervising. The instructor would be responsible for assessing when the student was experienced enough to go there. That makes a lot of sense. Of course as there are no M-ways north of Perth it isn’t a plan to make it compulsory.

I used to think this was a good idea, but the motorways are now so busy the last thing I’d like to see on there are learner drivers.

I don’t really see what’s so unique about driving on a motorway, it’s the easiest road to drive on once your not intimidated by the volume of traffic and speed of it.

How about needing 2 years post qualification experience on the roads before being allowed on a motorway, by which point you’ll likely wonder what the fuss is about.

Let’s hope they teach them how to get onto the motorway from the slip road properly.

@slowoldman

Most folk seem obvious to those give way lines on slip roads on the M80.

And graduated licences, what can’t drive in the dark until you’ve driven 12 months? Bollox’d in Scotland then as it means no driving after 1530 or before 0830 at this time of year.

I wasn’t saying no driving in the dark till they have done 12 months, the point I was making is they should experience as much difference in driving as possible. I’ve had Students do all their learning in the dark and the first time they drive in the daylight is on test. I’ve had Students who have never drove in the rain ( hard to believe near Manchester 😉 )

Most students have a set time of day they can have lessons. A graduated licence will take advantage of the weather etc.

They also mentioned 120 hours of lessons, so +£2500!

I’ve not heard that one and it will never happen in my opinion. Very few students need that many hours to be safe drivers. The graduated licence would not need that many hours.

Let’s hope they teach them how to get onto the motorway from the slip road properly.

It’s OK, there’ll be someone who’s more experienced and polite enough to slam the brakes on and flash them out. 🙄

Seems like a good idea but motorway driving is going to be logistically tricky- I got the equivalent from dual carriageways but quite often once you’re on a motorway there’s not a lot else to do til you come off again miles away- and then quite often, straight back on. As a learner I’d consider that a waste tbh- on the bypass where I learned it was up to speed, on, drive a mile, back off so you got a lot of the actual actions.

And at the end of the day if it’s not in the test a lot of instructors aren’t going to be motivated to teach it

120h of lessons is bonkers. As would be making people drive on motorways (since they are not reasonably accessible to many). They are already the safest roads, for the obvious reason that they are the easiest to drive on, so what is the supposed problem?

Black box would solve most of the problems of young drivers.

Of course as there are no M-ways north of Perth it isn’t a plan to make it compulsory.

This.

Black box would solve most of the problems of young drivers.

Well maybe not but it might show why they died.

@ Northwind hopefully after trials m/way driving would be compulsory as part of lesson structure rather than part of the test.

If nothing else it would give new drivers the experience of driving on the m/way with an approved instructor on hand.

Merak – Member

@ Northwind hopefully after trials m/way driving would be compulsory as part of lesson structure rather than part of the test.

As mentioned already, a good chunk of the country has no access to a motorway so it’d be impossible to make it compulsory.

Mmmnnnn, seems there’s a flaw in the plan. 🙂

Nah, I mean, it’s still going to be valuable for a lot of learners so having it as an option is a good idea. I’m just skeptical about teaching to the test. (when I learned bikes and cars, I looked up instructors that wanted us not to die, but I could easily have gone to a pass factory and just got out on the road with the minimum possible skillset)

If it comes in, I will teach it but it’s easy for me as I’ve a motorway just behind my house.

I think most students will be up for it and the ones who are not, I will get them on it anyway as its no grief for me. Other parts of the country are a no go for it.

The DVSA have published a consultation and, as part of it, there is a picture of the U.K. motorway network. I don’t go far away from the North West these Days so I was surprised to see no Motorways above Edinburgh and Glasgow, nothing in North Wales, Cornwall and the East coast above London.

I might as well get paid for a Motorway run to clear the DPF rather than doing it in my own time 😉

they don’t care about the inconvenience caused to others, the same reason that ‘veteran’ drivers do it.

I’d consider myself to be in this category seeing as I passed my test in 1994.

However I see as many young looking drivers hogging lanes as I do old fogeys.

The other day I followed a Nissan Juke which stayed in the outside lane for miles with nothing behind except me who was firmly ensconced in the inside lane but I was gaining on him so I pulled over behind him & gave him a flash (instead of undertaking him), he pulled over to the middle lane & I passed. As soon as I’d passed & went back into the inside lane he indicated & went back to the outside lane! He didn’t look very old.
So the m/way was quiet but why would anyone do that?

Nissan Juke.

Why would anyone buy one let alone drive like that.

Essel, should’ve just passed the car on the inside.

Where I am at the moment there is a minimum amount of time you must spend driving before your test. It can be done with an instructor or parent as long as the paperwork is correct. Once you pass then there are restrictions on number of passengers as well as age of passengers. There are also limitations on night (dark and time) driving where it is restricted unless you are going to school or work.
I did pass plus and drove a lot in fog/rain during this and learning and this experience was invaluable. more lessons once you have reached a minimum level would not be a bad thing imo.

Essel, should’ve just passed the car on the inside.

Maybe I should but I’ve always gone with not undertaking. Wouldn’t have made much difference, I think he had difficulty staying out of the outside lane anyway. As I pulled off the sliproad he was still in the outside lane with hardly a soul in sight.

It’s OK, there’ll be someone who’s more experienced and polite enough to slam the brakes on and flash them out.

That boils my water as well CaptainSQ!

Black box would solve most of the problems of young drivers. [/I]

My son works in a hotel, wouldn’t work for him as he often needs to be at work first thing and on lates leaves +11pm.

We just paid the extra £300 so he wouldn’t have one – plus it meant I couldn’t drive his car (vtec Honda 🙂 ).

Many parts of the country only have short lengths of dual carriageway, and even less with three lanes, which is a motorway.

As I understand it…

Dual carriageway isn’t 2 lanes, but is anything with a central reservation – essentially creating 2 different roads. Examples of single lane dual carriageways are, admittedly, rare.

Motorway has hard shoulder & motorway rules. Also, can be <3 lanes(or more).

Motorway rules can apply elsewhere e.g. A38M

The whole point of a motorway is…. they’re the safest place to drive. No pedestrians, cycles, horses and carriages, trams, level crossings. No parked cars, no turning across traffic, no roundabouts, no unmarked junctions, no sharp bends, no blind summits, you’re physically segregated from oncoming traffic. Pretty much all the hazards of driving have been managed and designed out. All so that you can drive at the same speed as you would on a duel carriageway or slightly faster than you would on the narrow, high hedged, twisting, poorly surfaced cowshit strewn B7695 but much, much more safely.

Theres nothing difficult about it. Any idiot who can start, steer and stop a car can drive on a motorway as easily and at least as safely as they can drive on any road- why does anyone imagine you need to be some kind of special kind of driver to use one. Do cyclists need to be specially qualified to use a segregated cycle path or pedestrians only be allowed to use an underpass after special training?

I’d consider myself to be in this category seeing as I passed my test in 1994.

Whoa, steady on young man, I’ve got 20 years more than you and I don’t hog the middle lane either.

The DVSA have published a consultation and, as part of it, there is a picture of the U.K. motorway network. I don’t go far away from the North West these Days so I was surprised to see no Motorways above Edinburgh and Glasgow, nothing in North Wales, Cornwall and the East coast above London.

When was it published, mid 60’s? The M9 has been around since ’69 😉

I regularly teach L drivers on motorways in buses and a short stretch of motorway can be included in lorry/bus driving tests.
IMHO national speed limit dual carriageway (non-motorway) is harder for learners because they often aren’t as well signed (e.g. 1/2 mile warning for junctions rather than 1 mile), have motorists joining at a few mph from short laybys, and you can find all manner of slow and vulnerable road users (tractors, horses, cyclists, etc) on the carriageway.
Many dual carriageways have laybys just before junction exits which can be confused with the slip road and dual carriageway slip roads are often much shorter with tight bends too.
The motorway proposal would provide useful experience, but rightly isn’t considered obligatory

My son works in a hotel, wouldn’t work for him as he often needs to be at work first thing and on lates leaves +11pm.

Telematics policies needn’t include curfews. Many do, but they’re not one and the same.

I see no need for motorway training at all. It’s the easiest driving around. And 120hrs or 12month periods of training are also ridiculous.

If anything, things such as current huge insurance premiums are doing a lot to discourage 17 year old going out and driving like nutters, as many simply can’t afford to.

I passed in 1999 after 12 hrs of lessons and never felt out of my comfort zone when I hit a motorway.

It’s a bit of a non starter, when I was learning to drive the nearest motorway was an hour and a half away. It would’ve been a 4 hour lesson to get an hours driving on one.

I personally think a much better idea would be an hour on a skid pan, so when you lose control of a car for the first time you’re not panicking and trying to remember the theory of controlling a skid you already have the in built skills.