Come on…

You need to try harder than that.

Maybe try an actual response to what’s been said.

from https://islamqa.info/en/114129

We should add here that this is also the view regarded as more correct by the Council of Senior Scholars in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. In their book al-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah (3/467), they said:

Similar to that is the purity of that which has been fertilized of trees and crops with impure things; their fruits are permissible because of the transformation of the impure substance. Another similar case is the purity of alcohol which turns into vinegar; it is permissible to consume it, sell it, drink it and use it in other ways, after it had been alcohol which it is haraam to drink, sell or buy, and that is because of this transformation.

New fivers are made form Polypropylene; the same as a lot of food packaging.

Tallow is used to lubricate the die that produces the pellets of PP that the base film stock is made from.

I would be more concerned as a vegan about the film that wraps the apples I eat, or the bags my crisps came in, as they actually touch food.

But I doubt trace amounts can be really detected…

Why would vegans worry, they are so weak from their lack of meat diet that they would never be in a position, influence or strength at work to earn that sort of money.
🙂

So is this why belly pork has become more expensive over the last few years?

ScottChegg, you highlight the main problem. Animal products are concealed in so many things that it’s impossible to be totally vegan. I do my best with the knowledge I have and every day I learn something new to avoid.

“trace amounts” is a pretty broad term though, and has been used to describe all sorts of things.

‘Vegan’ to STWer is like ‘Muslim’ to Sun reader? Discuss…

Presumably vegans use petrol and crude oil based products (genuine question by the way as I’m not one)?

Presumably vegans use petrol and crude oil based products (genuine question by the way as I’m not one)?

Most vegans I know choose to be vegan because they don’t wish to exploit animals and/or believe that their diet is mostly or entirely healthier than the typical meat-eating one. They don’t wish to exploit animals for a number of reasons, key reasons being farming (intensive or otherwise) and slaughter. So this ethical stance/preference effectively rules out buying/eating flesh, dairy or wearing leather etc. I’m sure some tiny proportion of vegans out there (the more religious ones?) treat any animal by-product as some kind of kryptonite – yet surely lifeforms that died billions years ago and became a chemical product is probably not one of them. Although they probably live in an oxygen tent in fear of inhaling micro-organisms and tiny insects. Wait … they don’t??? Gah the flaky hypocrites I want my money back.

[meathead revenge] I wish they’d make petrol out of fresh baby pigs then I could get my own back on stupid Muslims and vegans by driving a muscle car up and down outside of their houses!! Moohaha ha. Ha. [/meathead revenge]

Page 2 and no one has mentioned bacon yet. Standards are slipping.

dazh – Member
Page 2 and no one has mentioned bacon yet. Standards are slipping.

Do vegans suffer from poor eyesight too?

Ah spotted it! That’s a relief, I thought people might be growing up a bit. My eyesight is shite though, more due to age than diet sadly.

Speaking for myself of course, while animals are obviously not killed to make fivers (or Haribo or Durex etc..), the sale of the ‘by-products’ only make an industry I refuse to support more profitable, so I will avoid those too.

It’s also a bit of a cop-out to resign onesself to using these products just because that’s how it is. Many tyres (car and bike) use animal derived stearic acid in their manufacture. Some don’t, however, and after a bit of emailing around there’s a list of manufacturers who have confirmed they don’t use it*. I’ve noticed an increasing number of breweries putting the vegan society stamp on their products too.

* In the unlikely event of anyone being interested, they are Bontrager, DMR, Kenda, Maxxis, Michelin, No Tubes, Panaracer, Schwalbe, Specialized, Vittoria, Vredestein

“trace amounts” is a pretty broad term though, and has been used to describe all sorts of things.

I’ve just found this (on the Internet so it must be true):

The note is polyproylene (which is made from petroleum) but usually has stearates added as a moulding lubricant which can be derived from animal products at the 100 parts per million level. If you ask a supplier they will not deny that they use animal drived stearates just in case they ever need to and of course they may use it on a regular basis.

So that’s, what, 0.01% of the banknote?

More GCSE maths,

The new fiver is 125mm x 65mm, or 8125mm^2.

100 ppm of 8125m^2 gives you 0.8125. So if you divided up all the constituent parts, that gives you a surface area of animal-based lubricant of 0.8125mm^2. Assuming it all stays in the banknote, I imagine a percentage of it will remain with whatever it’s lubricating against.

I can feel a business venture coming on cleaning up these fivers and selling them on to concerned vegans (or vegetarians wanting to eat them 😀 ) at a slight markup.

Money laundering, as it were.. 😆

If you ask a supplier they will not deny that they use animal drived stearates

Yeah, but they do deny it. See my post above re. tyres.

The Maths!

Tallow is rendered cow or mutton fat, but for the sake of argument let’s go with cows here.

How much do cows weigh? Between 1,100kg for a male (bull) and 720kg for a female. So, on average, a cow weighs 910kg.

The body fat content of an average cow is 25 percent. Therefore, the amount of fat in an average cow’s body is 227.5kg.

How many kilograms of this fat is contained in offcuts you could use to make tallow? About 40kg, according to a man at the James Elliott butcher in Islington.

How much tallow is used in one note, according to the Bank of England? “A trace”, which chemically means less than 100 parts per million, or 0.01 percent. A polymer consultant I called confirmed that the tallow present in a given polymer would be a fraction of a single percentage.

New £5 notes weigh 0.7g, therefore there is roughly 0.00007 g of tallow present in one £5 note.

How many fivers are in circulation now, and therefore will be around by May of 2017, when all the old paper ones have been phased out? 329 million notes.

To work out how much tallow will be used in total in all of these fivers, we need to multiply 0.00007g by 329 million, which gives us 23,030g, or 23kg.

And if you get about 40kg of tallow-worthy fat from the average cow, how many cows would you need to make every single £5 note in circulation?

JUST OVER HALF OF ONE COW

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-very-precise-calculation-of-exactly-how-many-cows-are-being-murdered-for-the-new-fivers

Panic over, I can go back to eating fivers now.

Yay!

Does this mean we won’t be strapping people to the mouths of cannon before discharging them?

Its made the BBC News, seems there is going to be a solution to this “problem”

The solution is to use Scottish banknotes as they are already vegan friendly

It’s not just Vegans. If there is beef or pork used it could be offensive to both Hindu and Muslims.

Just because you might have a viewpoint (or no view on a subject) why should someone with strong convictions suffer?

Opportunity for schadenfreude?

You’re right, of course. It was a bit short-sighted of them.

Just because you might have a viewpoint (or no view on a subject) why should someone with strong convictions suffer?

If you have stupid convictions then it’s entirely your problem.

The solution is to use Scottish banknotes as they are already vegan friendly

*ahem*

If you have stupid convictions then it’s entirely your problem.

Oh the irony

😆

Oh the irony

Eh? afaik I’m conviction free.

What about the conviction that stupid convictions are stupid?

This place has become a parody of itself. It’s like a competition to see who is the most self righteous arse. The irony being that there can be no winner.

It’s the taking part that counts. 😉

What about the conviction that stupid convictions are stupid

Ah, I see. I don’t believe religion is stupid. I know it is.

Equivalent to a maximum of 0.003% per banknote. Won’t there likely be more animal fat on a note as a result of general circulation? Think of all the chippies/McDonalds/butchers etc these will get passed around. Typical over reaction.

Over reaction, yes, but typical of what?

but typical of what?

This day and age.

Typical over reaction.

why is it an over reaction to ask them to not put meat in money?

I can easily understand why a meat eater won’t care but it must be equally obvious why those who dont use or eat meat do object.

Who exactly is over reacting here?

There is probably as much meat in the vegetables that you eat.

are you planning on addressing the point i made or do you just wish to speculate widely on the meat content of veg and the contamination of notes whilst telling us others are over reacting?

Who exactly is over reacting here?

Looks like you are.