A few years back Duncan Ferguson, former Dundee United and Rangers (playing for Everton at the time IIRC) footballer and arch thug who had already served time for assault. surprised a burglar and gave him a bit of a slap, resulting in a trip to hospital. Drunken Duncan as he was known hereabouts was not prosecuted.
He is however, white.
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justice: FAIL
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Posted 2 years ago #
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hungry monkey - Premier Member
*awaits TJesq responses blaming society for a grown man's actions*
I have never said that thank you very much.
Posted 2 years ago # -
wait a minute, beyond reasonable force? **** that, someone holds you hostage in your own home (and i'm sure there would have been many a threat banded around) get some rough justice and he's the victim.
If you break into someones house then the owner hould have the right to defend themselves, f**kers lucky he's not kneecapped or dead.
Say what you like but the americans have got it right, someone breaks into your home and you can shoot them
May seem extreme, but i would get the first heavy object i could get my hands on and beat that scum until i got bored, and that takes a long time
Posted 2 years ago # -
BBSB
there is a difference between one person hitting someone with their hands and several people dishing out a sustained beating with weapons that leaves someone brain damaged
Posted 2 years ago # -
Got to laugh at this place. One day there is a thread about the supposed dangers of Sharia law ("they'll chop yer 'and off y'know"), and the next we're condoning vigilante mob beatings.
Would it have been okay if they had stoned him instead of using a cricket bat?
The guy clearly stepped quite a long way over a "reasonable and proportional use of force".
Posted 2 years ago # -
note the 'esq' TJ... just waiting for some namby pamby liberal to come along saying that he just hasn't had the same opportunities, and that prison is bad, and that we should educate etc etc etc
however, some people are just a waste of space.
Posted 2 years ago # -
He was clearly trying to flee when he was cornered and beaten by two men with weapons.
Their mistake is NOT placing a knife in the c*nts hand before the cops arrived.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Say what you like but the americans have got it right, someone breaks into your home and you can shoot them
True that! That's why there is virtually no violent crime in America.
Posted 2 years ago # -
A gang of men chased one man down the road and beat him with a cricket bat, metal pole and hockey stick until he was left with permanent brain damage. Whatever had happened before, thats not self defence or justified, its mob vigilantism.
Lots of papers seem to be focusing on the fact the robber didn't get a prison sentance, and missing the point that he couldn't be given one because of the injuries he recieved.
This.
It's unfortunate all round but the court has to send a message that vigilantism isn't acceptable.
Posted 2 years ago # -
These chaps beat a guy half to death. Vigilantly justice is the last thing we need to encourage.
when the SAS took out the perpetrators of the Iranian embassy siege, they executed them (armed or unarmed) and even tried to take one back indoors for execution. It was only the news helicopter above that saved him.
Everyone knows there are "licence to kill warrants" under the cairn on top of Pen-y-Fan which make you immune from prosecution.
Posted 2 years ago # -
there is a difference between one person hitting someone with their hands and several people dishing out a sustained beating with weapons that leaves someone brain damaged
..or a beating dished out by a professional athlete with a criminal record for violence and retaliation by the family of a middle aged man who has been held at knife point.
And as I pointed out a little bit of skin pigment can make a world of difference.Posted 2 years ago # -
I did wonder that to BBSB - however there is still a major difference between one person using their hands and a group of people with weapons.
I did think Ferguson should have got more of a sentence at the time
Posted 2 years ago # -
a little bit of skin pigment can make a world of difference
[quote]ffs
So all judges are white racists, I do love STW.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Enfit - who said that - although it is true that non whites get harsher sentacing for the same crimes.
However it would seem reasonable to wonder if racism had played a part in this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm glad the guy is locked up, what kind of lunatic chases after someone with an bar and a bat when his family have just been tramatised by a kidnapping and mugging? He should have stayed with them and made sure they were ok, and waited for the police and ambulance to arrive. The irony is that his actions may well have contributed to one of the thieves not getting a custodial sentence and possibly spending the rest of his life on disability benefit.
As for the rest of you advocating what he should have done (put a knife in his hand etc) and sharing your violent wet dreams on here about what you'd do in a similar situation, calm down, take a deep breath and go for a ride, it'll help make the voices go away for a bit.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Obviously I was wrong, it seems he's a proper businessman
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Hussain_Munir_291785713.aspx
Still surprised that he got that kind of sentence if there were no other 'issues' that the police/judge knew.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Where's Batman at times like these?
Posted 2 years ago # -
The thing is, the guy who held up the family at knife point HASN'T got away scott free, he took a serious beating. If you factor in the vigilante justice as part of the sentencing then it's easier to see why the judge wouldn't pass a further sentence.
However the guy who dished out the beating did it of his own free will, admittedly provoked, but still, beating someone up is against the law and should be punished.
That's how I think the law works (or has done in this instance). The fact that I'm also firmly in the camp of burglars/intruders leaving their human rights at the door when they break into my house is beside the point.
Posted 2 years ago # -
yea, they probably got it right.
IF he'd come home to find his family tied up and an armed man thretening them, then stoving the back of his head in would probably have been reasnoble force, I'd follow that sentiment as fas as killing him. As they'd chased him out the house, anything more than aprehension was unsreasnoble force. But thats not to say I wouldn't have left him in an even wose state.
Posted 2 years ago # -
can we get the title at the top of my IE changed to "stw - home of the Daily Express reading hard man"
FFS, you losers!
Posted 2 years ago # -
A few years back Duncan Ferguson, former Dundee United and Rangers (playing for Everton at the time IIRC) footballer and arch thug who had already served time for assault. surprised a burglar and gave him a bit of a slap, resulting in a trip to hospital. Drunken Duncan as he was known hereabouts was not prosecuted.
He is however, white.Don't know whats more staggering, that you can't see the difference between one man attacking someone in his own home with his fists and four men chasing a man down and beating him with weapons until he's brain damaged, or that you instantly assume its because of race..
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would bet my bike there's a vast proportion of us who are delighted that the burglar got a severe thrashing. As Padowan pointed out above, he hardly got away scott-free for his crimes. If his brain recovers enough to mull over this incident I'll bet he wishes he never broke into that house and I'm guessing he may not offend again anytime soon. A good result.
As for the defendants I applaud the principle but it does sound like they went a step (or two) too far. But then sometimes don't the "goodies" have to be prepared to go one step further than the "baddies"?
I think the courts got this one right.
Posted 2 years ago # -
TBH bashing him on the head is excessive, there are plenty of other parts of the body to aim at that would cause mucho pain/injury, ensure he wouldn't do it again
yeah, like smacking him in the crotch till his balls were mashed. or the back of the neck. or a chelsea smile - Zack!
if someone done that to my family i'd probably kill them. i've got a bit of a temper at times.
i think the original victim's biggest mistake was being seen/caught with the cricket bat. like i said in the first post, i'd get the guy taken away sharpish and then dump the c*nt somewhere remote and hope that he dies.
Posted 2 years ago # -
If somebody has just tied you and your family up, and you manage to get free, I think it's entirely reasonable to make sure the guy who did it is immobilised so he can't come straight back and do some more harm.
I think what might happen if somebody threatened me with a knife or gun, and I managed to disarm him. At that point I would have the weapon and he would be very very angry and scared.
I would put money on him being a better fighter than me, so the likelihood is that he would get the weapon back and use it. So the only safe course for me would be to render him powerless.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Isn't this thread redundant as the judge pre-empted it in his summing up?
"It may be that some members of the public, or media commentators, will assert that the man Salem deserved what happened to him ... and that you should not have been prosecuted and need not be punished,” he said.
"However, if persons were permitted to take the law into their own hands and inflict their own instant and violent punishment on an apprehended offender rather than letting justice take its course, then the rule of law and our system of criminal justice, which are the hallmarks of a civilised society, would collapse."
Posted 2 years ago # -
lol at all the internet hard men on here
Never realised middle aged software developers/cycling enthusiasts were such tough guys before.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Lets face it grumm it'll turn into a fight-club website shortly...
Posted 2 years ago # -
i'd probably kill them
i think the original victim's biggest mistake was being seen/caught with the cricket bat. like i said in the first post, i'd get the guy taken away sharpish and then dump the c*nt somewhere remote and hope that he dies.
Then get done for kidnapping and attempted murder?
I think all the keyboard ninjas need to chill out and go for a ride.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Having given the matter further consideration the judge's comments about vigilantes is pretty spot on. I am sure pretty much 100% of us on here are decent folk but if vigilantes were given the green light, who would draw the line between living (on the whole) safely in our homes or living in perpetual fear that some thug, backed up by partial "witnesses" might not concoct some cock and bull story to justify attacks on anyone? Sort of sounds like anarchy to me.
I believe the outrage people feel and the ambivalence felt about the sentencing comes down to a perceived failure of the Law to deliver justice, whatever that may be. So, first of all work out what justice is, decide how it would further society then design an appropriate punishment. If the judge felt the chap should go to prison even in part, because not imposing a custodial sentence would/could give a green light to less desirable people to take the force of Law into their own hands then the sentence is right.
The defendant may not have had time to sit back or rationalise about his actions, for obvious reasons, but we, as truly disinterested parties, can. The fact that we can consider the action, the cause and the implications of our decisions, mean that we can live in a relatively civilised society.
Meanwhile, I have been held at knife point. I was not robbed, I was not stabbed but in a fit of misjudged bravado I took the knife off the bloke. When he had gone I was more relieved than anything else. I felt sick, weak at the knees and just glad it was over. All I wanted to do was sit down. I certainly wasn't going to go running after him. Adrenaline I guess but it didn't make me half kill the bloke.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I fail to see the Justice Failure in this case , is it that courts of law don't live up to some peoples Death Wish fantasies?
The Robber with previous for we know not what was hunted down in the street and battered to the point where he can not follow what goes on around him,can't understand simple concepts and can't give instructions in his own interests. That is what being unfit to plead means. It took a group armed with wepons some effort to do that . No matter what the provocation they are clearly evil vengeful scum who rightly belong in prison . Imagine what they would do to you in a parking dispute or road rage incident.
The Robber is equally an evil sh!t and should by rights be in prison for a long time as no doubt he would be but for the Brain Dammage.The quote from the Judge appears spot on "However, if persons were permitted to take the law into their own hands and inflict their own instant and violent punishment on an apprehended offender rather than letting justice take its course, then the rule of law and our system of criminal justice, which are the hallmarks of a civilised society, would collapse."
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think the guy's lucky he wasn't in the states!He'd probably have a lump of lead in him instead of brain damage!
Posted 2 years ago # -
cricket bat braking into 3 bits , cheap crap bats.
Posted 2 years ago # -
i sometimes struggle to sleep at night, worrying about all the helpless misunderstood bad guys out there.
they all need a hug, it's so unfair.
(i cannot manage to raise even the slightest sympathy for salem)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Weird reading all this. I have met Munir a couple of times and was pretty much amazed when this first happened.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've got no sympathy for Salem but comparing his sentence with the other 2 is absolute nonsense- he got that sentence (as people have tried to point out in this thread, but seemingly without any success) because the brain damage he suffered left him unable to plead, and so unable to be tried and sentenced normally. If they'd not left him brain damaged, he would have been able to plead and would have been sentenced differently.
The judge summed it up well: "The prosecution made it plain that there was no allegation against you, Munir Hussain, in respect of the force you used defending your family."
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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