We are in the process of buying a house and were hoping to complete this Friday. However we were presented with some new paperwork on Friday just gone relating to underpinning which took place in 1991.

The storey goes as follows: We offered on the house (1920s detached) knowing that a single storey extension had been added in 1995, which was then built on top of in 2003. As a result it was underpinned to take the increased loading. We were assured that the work had all of the paperwork etc and it wouldn’t be a problem.

Time passes and were still waiting on paperwork to be handed to solicitors when on Friday just gone some is sent over to our solicitor. It doesnt contain the completion certs for the extension, however these have since been issued this week from the council as they were never requested at the time. However, what it did contain was paperwork relating to a subsidence damage claim and details of repairs to foundations and superstructure (all be it just a few letters saying the work has been done etc with no justification as to why) which had not been mentioned in any conversations held since September.

So now im waiting to see if the paperwork satisfy the lenders surveyor/valuer, however he was only aware of the later extension underpinning so no mention of the early work was made and no mention of subsidence, cracks etc which there isnt.

So, any ideas where i stand? I now need insurance and the company i proposed for buildings and contents wont insure it, Royal Insurance (now Royal and sun alliance) who paid out hold no records and its not insured with them any more. I’m trying to find out who the current owners have insurance with but what if they haven’t declared the subsidence so managed to get insurance, well where does that leave me?

Stress, jesus! Wouldn’t mind but our buyer is now threatening to pull out so we have had to agree to exchange contracts this week and complete in 2 weeks come Friday to secure our sale.

Any help gratefully received, cheers

Useful article here –
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/sep/22/subsidence-house-underpinned

I don’t have any experience of this myself, but I do often think of what might happen when we make our first ever house move (we bought the house we rented so it was pretty simple).

I would say if the mortgage company is happy, and you can sort out insurance (surely many companies will do if the house is fine and has the right paperwork? They may just say no because of previous claims..) then it’s ok, as you are probably aware.

However if anything doesn’t stack up, and you aren’t convinced that its not going to be a massive problem/expense in the future, I would just walk away. You’ll lose money now, maybe a lot, but a house subsiding with no insurance will be crippling financially. There’s plenty of other house built properly without jelly foundations to risk it IMHO.

Your best bet is to insure it with the company it isn’t currently insured with. Make all possible attempts to find that out. I work in the mortgage & insurance industry and finding insurance for an underpinned house will be almost impossible, I’m sure somebody will cover the property but at a cost. You could try asking your lender for guidance or an insurance broker. Good luck mate.

He won’t have any choice but to walk away, if the house can’t be insured you won’t get a mortgage on it.

my parents house was underpinned. they have an absolute nightmare insuring it.

https://www.hardtoinsure.co.uk/personal-insurance/your-home/subsidence-underpinned?gclid=CPKYyer_hLsCFUn3wgodxGsA0A

as a starting point or find an insurance broker with access to Towergate- they have a specialist underpinned property policy (to be fair the above link may try them already).

whatever you feel about the situation you’re in now bear in mind that anyone you try and sell it to will feel the same.

It’s like buying a written off/repaired car – there are people who’ll do it but it’s not for most of us.

bit of a pain for you, to say the least 🙁

If it were I think I’d be walking away, tough as it is, there are other houses that will have no problems. Either that or use it as leverage to get a very sizeable discount on the property. The vendors will only have to go through that again. Also, why didn’t the valuation mention it, if you had a homebuyers report or a full structural you’ll have some grounds for a large complaint.

We looked very hard at a property that had been underpinned, professionally done with all paperwork and it looked likr a right bargain but the cost of building insurance was insane, o the point that we’d end up paying more per month than we would if we’d just bought a more expensive house without these issues.

Unless it’s an absolute thumping bargain I’d walk away and even if it is I’d think very long and hard.

Its a lot more house than we can get similarly for the money and it was reduced from 230 to 170 over time. Insurance is coming back hefty from a chat with towergate and im now worried about the problem if we ever came to sell. Im not really concerned about the underpinning to be honest, its prob fixed any issues it may have had.

The question is, how much discount is realistic to ask for at this stage?

They lied to you, they knew about it and didn’t tell the agents or you, left it for you to find out yourself, scumbags. Start at 20k and work down from there?

You could play tactics, tell the agents you don’t want it and express how angry you are, also ask you them to set up viewings for other houses. They’ll tell the vendors and let them ruminate on that for a few days. Then come back and offer 150k but I reckon you should be able to get at least 5k off, maybe more if the house belonged to somebody who died and the kids are despo for the money. Sorry to post so much.

When we bought a house that had been underpinned we got insurance from the mortgage lender who had done the survey and therefore said they were happy to insure (with a 1K excess for any subsidence issues). Just in case you haven’t tried this. (This was Nationwide)

The thing to remember, is that any problems you are having as buyer will be visited back on you 10 fold when you try to sell it.

either a MASSIVE reduction in price, or walk away.

Its a lot more house than we can get similarly for the money and it was reduced from 230 to 170 over time.

Reading that makes me think that the current owners have found that the house is getting on for being unsellable!

I wouldn’t be touching it with a barge pole.

(I have to say we had no problems selling said underpinned house either – but when we bought and when we sold both times it was upfront and not found out about at the last minute)

I’d be walking away too I’m afraid. House moving is stressful but even more stressful is living in a house that you can’t sell for a decent price because of something fundamentally wrong with it or because you’ve overpaid on it.

The only possible exception I’d consider is if the sellers will accept a silly low offer – it seems likely that they’ve lied to you in the hope that you’d either go ahead anyway or that (as is unfortunately common) your solicitor/you wouldn’t read the details carefully enough to notice the issues.

I’m pretty risk averse, so I’d be cutting my losses, wiping my furrowed brow and moving on to something without the potential headaches down the line….!

Go to an old fashioned local independent insurance broker and get them to find cover.

If it was me, i’d run a mile. I almost bought a house which had minor underpinning. Looking back, what annoyed me, is that you pay for all these expensive top of the range surveys but no one informs you of the possible implications of the findings. Anyhow it took me weeks to try and get insurance, and it eventually became clear that even the vendor didn’t have any – I was provided with various insurance details which were either years out of date or just didn’t exist and they were just stalling. A couple of days before signing on the dotted line I realised if its this difficult for me, what’s it going to be like when I want to sell? Furthermore, there were plenty of houses out there and with my house sold, why take a risk I didn’t need to when I could just rent for a bit if need be. Financially, the best decision I ever took especially with this being late 2007.

Ours is underpinned and I took a view when we bought, but I didn’t need a mortgage so we didn’t insure for subsidence! Having said that we’ve now got cover through Adrian Flux who were very helpful – £2k excess. I did have to get a structural engineers report and all the calcs and supervision notes from the engineer who did the job!

Do not exchange on your house until this is sorted – you may find yourself out on the streets if you can’t move into your new house…

Or living with the mother in law!

We need to complete on ours as its taken two years to get this far so its either mother in law or rent!

Ill ask the lender what their view on insurance is. Im not too perturbed about the risk, however the main points are the mortgage co needing satisfactory insurance, the cost, c £1-1.5K/year i suspect as oppose to £250/yr, being deceived and the resale!

This is not what you need just before christmas!

We had a house that needed serious structural work (bomb blast from WW2 in Sheffield would you believe…that had never been fixed). We got the work done, and it came with an insurance based warranty for 30 years iirc, against future problems.
For housing insurance, it did cause a problem as many would not insure, but a visit to an insurance broker and it was sorted.
As for selling on, we sold on at normal market value after the work was completed.

Towergate Insurance cover all sorts of stuff so worth giving them a call.

It’s a complete nightmare, Wife owns a flat which seems to have settled a bit, but so far surveys come back with no subsidence. However, we can’t sell it, as it just gets flagged as possible subsidence ever time someone tries to take a mortgage on it – complete nightmare.

I’d walk away.

Could you ask the buyer to get a survey and inspection undertaken at their cost to prove that no recent movements have taken place? This may help with the insurance though timescales will be very tight. Having just got keys to our new house last week after 17 months at the in laws I feel your pain, but think with your head not your heart!

Don’t be pressured into completing. Your previous offer was based on what you knew then. At the very least revise your offer.
Personally, I’d be considering pulling out – it’ll be hard shifting a hard to shift house in future years let alone one that you’ve paid over the odds on (due to the know known issue).

it’ll be hard shifting a hard to shift house in future

Sounds like the house has not had any problems shifting in the past!

IGMC

How’s your mother in law’s Christmas cooking? 😀 more babysitters while Daddy has winter bike rides or goes out with his wife to cinema/theatre /pub. Some things are not meant to be sometimes!? Positives in every negative.

It just so happens I’m an insurance broker if you are still struggling.

I would need to see a structural survey report/remedial report and any info on monitoring results.

Getting a quote isn’t the difficult part, it’s getting you subsidence cover. philldaATcoversureDOTcoDOTuk if you do need a hand.

Whereabouts in the world is it by the way?

Legal & General.
RM.

I have someone on the case who hopefully will be able to get insurance without a surveyors report as this will take time we don’t have. I didn’t get a survey as I’m an engineer and not daft and a builder friend looked at the house also. All there is of note is some shoddy brickwork on the rear extension but no signs of subsidence so it would have been pointless really, however in hindsight a report saying nothing was wrong may have been useful!

House is in audley, staffs.

What’s annoying is that there is a very low risk of natural movement in the area and the vendor has stated in the signed property information form that the only underpinning done was to the extension. She has lied to her insurers also by not telling them of he works so her insurance is void.

Its such a ball ache, I’d be happy to insure without subsidence as I don’t reckon it ever actually subsided, I think its just an old house that had a crack once and the engineers at the time jumped on the underpinning scam at the time to do in necaccary work and this is the outcome, a permanently blacklisted house! Its absolute bolox, its gone no where in 90 years so ain’t going to go anywhere fast! I’d rather have this one than a new build that will crack and move guaranteed!

Lets see what tomorrow brings!

Oh and if anyone knows a structural eng with the relevant quals local that can work a fast turnaround it may be needed and much appreciated!

if anyone knows a structural eng with the relevant quals local

You could try http://findanengineer.com/ which is run by the Institution of Structural Engineers specifically to help this kind of situation.

The insurance industry is paranoid about subsidence, whereas structural engineers (I’m one) are more likely to take credit for the problem having been fixed, so long as it’s been done properly. If you can get a good report from a structural engineer it ought to help convince a proper insurance company.

Rogermoore you mention legal and general. This may be the solution as they only consider it a risk if it is within a 15 year time frame and as its 23 years ago it should be unsuitable. I have had a quote online which is reasonable nut doesn’t mention anywhere about subsidence so I’ll call them tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed.

Good call I’m glad I looked them up with regard to it as it brought up many very similar cases to ours and seemingly they had positive outcomes

If it were I think I’d be walking away, tough as it is

+1

Sorry. 🙁

Walk away.

There are bloody millions of houses in the country, and the overwhelming majority do not have this sort of problem attached to them. Hard to insure and harder to sell. It will spoil your enjoyment of the house, keep you awake at night and present a huge obstacle and massive bargaining chip to any potential buyer.

Don’t do it to yourself.

Subsidence here
Patched up but not underpinned
Issued with certificate from insurers surveyor and further insurance with quotes from several other companies only a tad more expensive

Off the top of my head its a certificate of building conformity or something
Do you have this? It seems to make it a lot less painful

How the heating?

Good luck