I got my dog in October 2006. She was about 1 year old then, she's a Doberman. She hadn't had any training or been socialised to anything it seemed. At time time I had a boyfriend and (even though he had grave reservations (and he was right)) he said if I really wanted the dog he would help me look after her.

She used to p155 when she was frightened (most of the time) plus she has urinary incontinence (she has medicine 3x per day to control this).

Despite numerous trainers, training, training aids she still pulls on the lead. Every single walk is a battle of wills. My back is totally f*ck*d, I have constant leg pain, my right arm is almost useless now, hurts even now while typing this. My knees ache. I can't let her off the lead much because she chases runners and cyclists. She goes mental in the car if she sees a cyclist or motorbike and has made scratches on the upholstery. She goes mental in the caravan if anyone walks past.

I used to work 3 days per week, now it's 4, due to wage freeze, so I am constantly wracked with guilt at leaving her. I get up at 5.30 to walk her for an hour before work, and walk another hour when I get in (at 7.30pm). I have no social life because I feel I leave the dog enough with work anyway, feel guilty every time I go on my bike, because I am leaving her again.

She has come on a lot in the time I've had her, she's more confident but she just will not do what she's told (unless I shout and scream like an old fishwife! – stressful)

I love my dog – she's all I've got really, and without her I'd be alone but I'm totally exhausted mentally and physically with the struggle. Crying now, I really don't know what to do.

I assume you have tried a Halti/Hilti? I can hold both my mate alstation? with my little finger with those.
No help with anything else.

Yup, she wears a Halti – it stops her pulling as hard as she used to, but as soon as she sees something to chase she just ignores it and jumps, twists, pulls to try to get away from me and to chase whatever she's seen.

email DogBorstalEmails@bbc.co.uk, or call 020 8752-4875.

http://www.thedogownersclub.co.uk/contact.html

might be able to help.

Ignore – double post.

I really like the New Skete Monks approach in Raising a Puppy, – can it it from Amazon. We have had similar problems, lots of thoughts here and willing to chat, email in details

It's perhaps inevitable that a dog left so long alone and so often will present problems.

Think of the life you'll gain as a result of humanely relieving yourself of the burden your dog has become. Perhaps admitting, to yourself, that managing your dog is something you can't do alone and seeking its re-homing or, as a last resort, destruction is the only way you'll rescue some quality of life for yourself.

grittyshaker – I agree. It wasn't meant to turn out this way – my life was different when I took her on, so now I need to change something. It's not just me, I want her to have a nice life too. Problem is, she took 2 years to settle in, and everyone who knows us says how much she loves me. So, 2 more years to settle somewhere? What if they get fed up with the barking, destruction, wee, hair, pulling and move her on again? What if she ends up tied up in a breaker's yard? Or with gipsies? That's the thought that's kept me going up until now, that what I offer is significantly better than what she had (drug dealers) and what might happen if her next owners can't hack it.

Lionheart YGM

Saccades – thanks, have emailed them.

Please don't take this as being nasty or mean but I think you have the wrong breed of dog – regardless of the dog's issues – for you.

That said, if you're always on edge about how the dog is going to react to anything then they are going to pick this up. Additionally, they can't diferenciate between good attention and bad attention.

If they get a lot of attention due to their bad behaviour then they will continue acting like it. If they get a lot of attention for good behaviour and ignored for bad behaviour they will gradually stop behaving badly.

This, of course, doesn't apply to a dog that has suffered a major trauma. In this case a dog will need a lot of time and effort.

You seem quite fragile so I apologise if what I'm about to say seems harsh.. But it seems you may have lost sight of the fact that you have a working dog not a house pet and it may actually have a happier life outdoors tied up in a breakers yard or with gypsies (WTF?) than stuck alone in your house.

I took on a 9 year old Husky/German Shepherd that had some …. issues. I took him to classes, did everthing that I thought I should, etc etc etc

Pet dog trainers couldn't do much, so in the end I called out an ex copper (dog section). It cost me about £180 for his visit, but he was great.

I'd suggest looking at theBritish Institute of Professional Dog Trainerspage as opposed to a pet dog trainer., or I can give you his details if you want to ask him if he can recommend someone in your area.

It's a shame you don't have somewhere secure to let him run free though.

Juust a thought, these two organisations may be able to recommend someone to help (rescues don't just re-home,they may be able to help):

Doberman Rehoming

Doberman Welfare

The farmer allows us to go in her fields, so Missy gets to run around free then, plus this site is quiet so I can let her out in the evening and we play kill the glove (she likes gloves). She goes outside on a long lead, on a spike in the grass, so she gets a certain amount of freedom that way. I have tried to make enclosures for her, but if she sees something she goes utterly mad – jumping, growling, barking – she launches at whatever she's seen – crashing into whatever is in her way, scratches/beats down enclosures/barrels through hedges, tries to get out of the window. Thing is, it's all fear-driven. If she can get to whoever she's chasing, she doesn't actually do anything, she just runs round them sort of jumping and yipping. Obviously, I can't allow that.

GW. Yes, very fragile and very upset, but, have to do the right thing. BTW, most dogs are working dogs, and part of Missy's remit is to guard me and the caravan. A lot of Dobes are left for extended periods as guard dogs. Dobes were bred for companionship and guarding originally.

double post

Hi there,
just like to say,I understand your frustration with your Dobe,I've go a male aged two,he was snipped about 8 months ago,and it has calmed him slightly,but the thing that has worked is time and patience.They are perhaps the most loving and faithful breed of dog,but also one of the most strong willed,stubborn,head strong pig headed breed.
I excersise him (off the lead) for around two hours a day,every day,rain,shine ,whatever the weather,with out this release he his a nightmare,no question.
Of course,with a rescue dog you've got so many more issues to work through,and she will need extra love and affection,but as importantly,she needs a pack leader to look to,and that's got to be you.
It is a very slow process,but you need to be firm with her,as has been mentioned,praise good behavior,ignore bad,this is crucial.

one thing that may help with walking her on the lead is this,when she starts pulling/jumping about,turn and walk the other way,yes you'll look a bit weired in the street,but eventually she'll get fed up,and start to heel,I take it you are teaching her this command ?

Treats work well for recall training (try cocktail sausages !)

also if you've got access to a field ,let her loose,call her back and if she doesn't respond,hide ! it will work.

have you tried long lead training for recall ?

I hope some off this is some help,if you would like any more info,or to discuss further,feel free to email me (addy in profile)
Keith.

As others have said- get some professional training help. I had a German SHepherd that was a nightmare in the same way that you mention, and after paying for a number of one 2 one training sessions with a specialist, we gradually ironed out most of the issues.

The suggestion about ignoring bad behaviuor is a good one. My dog used to bark and pull like mad at anyone else on the street – however if I dropped the lead and turned around and walked off, she stopped instantly and came to heel. A few weeks of this and she stopped barking and pulling.

Karinofnine,

I'm not wanting to sound harsh but I really do think you have choosen the wrong breed of dog. If keeping her undercontrol is causing you such physical problems then you have the wrong breed.

You state that security is one reason for your choice, well any breed of dog will defend it's owner and property (even the humble Golden Retriever if danger really is present).

You want to do the right thing but that shouldn't be to your detriment. There's been some really good advice posted so far and by all means gett trying but don't rule out that the best thing for both of you may be to pass her onto one of the Doberman charities (with full disclosure).

Try a Canny collar. We found it works better than a Halti for our dogs.

The Canny Collar looks good. Will try it. Thanks

Thanks everyone.

I'm in touch with the Dobermann Welfare Association, have emailed Dog Borstal and have noted your suggestions.

You can't leave any dog lone for that long. There will be some smart erse along in a bit to say you can, but you can't. Especially a dog that has issues.

I'm sorry to say but (IMHO) you are not in a position to have a dog. I wanted a dog since I left home but didn't get one until I was in a position to really have a dog ie 2 of us, with the time and space. You've not got the dog trained either – and that makes things worse for both of you. Sorry – but thats how I see it.

Oh dear, you sound really quite upset, your clearly trying to help and care very much so I really hope you find something that works. Sorry, I don't know anyhitng about dogs so I can't offer any suggestions, but I want to to say I really hope you find something that works for you, hopefully for your dog too.

I haven't got anything useful to add, so all I can offer is a virtual hug.

i'm going to upset a lot of people here but i don't care.
are you being firm enough and letting her know who's boss?
i don't believe in abusing animals but a smack or punch to the head/shoulder works wonders or failing that nipping their ear with your teeth works too.

my cousin took in a 1year old staffy in that was uncontrollable. within half an hour of getting it in the house he had it pinned to the ground literally sitting on top of him growling in his ear (after it snapped at him). after that he was good as gold.
a friend with a rescued english bull terrier did something similar, every time he gave it a biscuit it would snap at him so he punched it in the head, it bit him twice more then started to realise that snapping resulted in a punch and not to bite the hand that feeds you.

dogs are pack animals and will assume they are the alpha male/female unless you show them otherwise.

Your suggesting nibbling the ears of this;

😥

Karin – ygm.

My God I hope this is a wind up, if not put the poor creature to sleep, it's you that needs the help not the dog dag.

Sorry.

so he punched it in the head, it bit him twice more then started to realise that snapping resulted in a punch and not to bite the hand that feeds you.

Oh dear….

Karin, don't give up on your dog. It's taken us over 3 years to get Ted where we're happy with his behaviour most of the time. The biggest step forward was going to basic obedience classes. Not for getting him to sit etc, he could do that, Rather for him to socialise with the other dogs, and learn to concentrate on us when there were so many distractions.

It does sound as if your dog is home alone for too long. Is there any way you could go home in the day? Do you have a neighbour who could walk her, or perhaps a professional dog walker who could walk her at lunchtime?

Fear aggression can be overcome, but it's not easy. As hard as it can be, do not lose your temper with her. Very hard to keep it all inside, especially when you are frustrated, but I know from experience that one loss of temper can set you back enormously (usualy before you even realise you've made progress)

More than anything I think you should (if you haven't) find STW for dobermanns and join in there.

There is some debate about the idea of establishing yourself as packleader. I personally think it's a good place to start, but Mr Smith's methods are so wrong I can't believe I'm reading it. Try googling NILIF for a more humane approach.

Ultimately, if you don't have the time you might have to consider rehoming her. It needn't be a tragedy, you both might feel enormously happier after a short while. (Been there, done it with a saluki lurcher several years ago. It broke my heart to hand him back, but it was best for all of us.)

Time spent with your dog is your most valuable tool, perhaps bite the bullet, go for longer walks / several training sessions per week (Costs, I know) and give up / cut down on the riding? (Until you see some progress at least.)

Most of all, I hope it all works out for you and Missy. My dog is the source of enormmous fulfilment, but it's been a bumpy ride to get here. Try as hard as you can, but don't make both of your lives a misery if it's just not going to work out.

Mr Smith's methods are so wrong I can't believe I'm reading it.

they are not "my methods"
and i would argue that the owners methods before those with a firm hand came to their rescue were far more 'wrong'. the 2 dogs are now happy in their current homes with owners that adore them.

and 3 years to sort your own dogs behavior out? that's 21 human years!
maybe you need a different method 🙂

with owners that adore them.

Yet punch them in the head. Karin has a dog with fear aggression, just how do you think it will react to a bit of a beating for expressing that fear?

that's 21 human years!

Please be trolling…..(and tell me you don't own a dog.)

sitting them on the naughty step and then explaining where they went wrong and getting them to apologise is better than sending them to bed without their winalot

TooTall, if you read my post you will see that I took on Missy when my life was different from how it is now. I cannot see into the future.

The very first dog expert I had (in week 1) couldn't believe the strong bond the dog had formed with me and the caravan. I think that is important.

I used to have a dog walker who Missy liked. I have tried others, if she doesn't like them, she won't go with them, if they manage to coax her out of the caravan, she pulls out of her collar and comes home. Then she wets her bed to let me know that she's been upset.

She has come on enormously well in so many ways since I've had her.

I have just moved, so feeling lonely and disorientated. My back and leg are killing me, and my car has been away for repairs for FOUR WEEKS.

I'm going to: find a dog walker who she likes, do some training on the turbo trainer, see about reducing my days back to 3, get some professional help with the fear aggression.

Thanks all.

try these people in digswell, welwyn herts. just round the corner from us

http://www.thedobermannclub.co.uk/

best wishes

sorry if this has already been said i didnt read the whole thread ….

you could try this http://www.doggiesolutions.co.uk/dap-collar-dog-appeasing-pheromone-9451-0.html

it worked well with my jack russells separation anxiety…..

just to clarify, how long do you leave the dog and how bigs your caravan?

or is he crated inside the caravan, and if so for how long?

I think the one who provides the food is no.1 in the pack rather than someone who punches dogs in the head 😕
Good luck Karin, I've got a dog and am in similiar circumstances to you, tho' thankfully Jim the Greyhound is about the most laid back dog you could meet. But he has taken 4 years to get him to the stage where he is quite confident with other dogs- was never aggressive, but would run off or freeze to the spot. (then some co#k in the park this morn had some horrid little terrier that attacked him , hopefully it wont set him back)
Soz for long post

Karinofnine

I share my 2 dogs with the ex and the most they are left alone is 6 hours and that is rare. It makes a huge difference having 2, as even a few hours is a long time for a dog and they keep each other company. In addition, they give each other loads of exercise chasing around off the lead, far more than I could offer even walking for hours a day. I am not suggesting you get another dog as it may compound the situation, but it might be worth discussing with the professionals you are talking to. I don't think you are in the N.East but if you are I could recommend someone who is excellent.

Mr Smith has a point (although I would not punch a dog) in that a dog is a pack animal and has to learn/accept what is right and wrong according to the pack leader. I have used the 'pin to the floor growling' method to good effect but that is only valid when it is a direct challenge to the owner and not in the case where the dog has other issues.

I really hope it goes well for you and the 3 days at work will make a difference. Good luck.

I agree with some of the posters here. If your OP is correct, you're leaving Missy for four days a week for about 12 hours (?) at a time. That's way too long. No two ways about it. I would make an educated guess that Missy's problems can be solved but not by a new collar or a burst of training. What she needs can't be provided by you. I've trained dogs to be companions for disabled people and you can't overestimate the importance of calm, consistent, continuous attention. Sorry, but I think you need a proper re-think not a sticking plaster solution.

I read your post – you are not in a position to give the right dedication to a dog now, regardless of what went before. Even 3 x days alone is far too much. If the dog only goes with a dog walker 'who Missy likes' then the dog isn't trained enough for your lifestyle.
It doesn't matter whether you think the dog has bonded – it has so many issues (as do you with the dog) that you are physically degrading. That isn't right no matter how anyone looks at it. She is a 5 yr old dog with issues unresolved since you got her – thats going to be near impossible if you've not dealt with them properly yet.

Karinofnine checked your location. If you were local to me I'd offer to come round and walk her a couple of times a week.

Are there any cost effective dog walking services locally? I cant offer any behavioural advice. Just all the best. We potentially could be rehoming our Bingo soon. Its not something I want to do or look forward to but we are going to exhaust other avenues first.