Is it any better/worse in the mud?
If you have gone 1×10 did you miss your granny?
My front mech seems to pick up stones and mud so never works without me cleaning stuff out with a stick.So looking for alternatives.

No problems here on 32t front and 11-36 rear, rode loads in wales, dartmoor and all my local stuff and the only place i find it lacking is on the brief stretch of cycle path to work where i spin out on the downs, more than willing to take a hit on this though. Started on a 34t front but found it a bit of a chore on the ups when i wasn’t fully fit.

Mine survived just fine, took it to Spain with me for it’s only winter ride 🙂

Singlspeed is the way foreward for winter riding, and save my nice bike for nice days.

Then again after paying £75 for a tank of petrol (not even on the motorway prices!) I can now justify running XTR as long as I get similar mileage out of it!

Ran my CX All winter, no dramas at all..

I’ve got XX on it’s third winter and X0 just done this one, both sets running fine.

Ok here 3×10 xt, i have been a bit slack with the cleaning so just fitted a new chain a month ago. No worse rhan 9sp really

10 speed in “no worse than 9 speed shocker”

preceeded by “9 speed in no worse than 8 speed shocker” and so on.

Some people just like to be negative.

How does a 36 x32 compare to a 32x 22? The road climb out of woolacombe (puttsborough end) demands the lowest gear known to mankind, well for me anyway.

clubber, was that a go at me, or a general comment, or was it just mild sarcasm? just asking, it’s still early for me.

36t and 11-36 here, chain’s worn, and annoyingly took one sprocket of the (XTR) cassette with it, but that’s my fault for not changing the chain quickly enough. Generally lasting longer than 2×9 was.

Previously longevity on XX rings was utter toss, but can’t compare to Shimano. XTR cassette wore quicker than XX.

No, quite the opposite actually, Jamie. It was a dig at the people who always proclaim doom whenever anything new comes along regardless of whether it’s warranted (and to be fair, sometimes it is).

Some of us have heard doom claimed when Shimano went from 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9, 9 to 10 and for Campag, 10 to 11. As it turns out, there’s been no real world difference and they’ve all been fine.

zippykona- the road up past the Natural Trust hut ? 😯

zippykona – Member
How does a 36 x32 compare to a 32x 22

Assuming you’re writing it as rear sprocket x front chainring (the other way to what most people would write)

32f x 36r = 32/36 = 0.89
22f x 32r = 22/32 = 0.69

So the first ratio is 28% higher than the second – eg about a third harder.

The first ratio is approximately equivalent to 22f x 24r which is around the third easiest gear on a standard 11-32 cassette

Scruff the one past the long carpark that follows the beach to puttsborough. Always been too knackered to notice any huts!
In my younger days I would attack right at the top,now I just die.

10 speed in “no worse than 9 speed shocker”

preceeded by “9 speed in no worse than 8 speed shocker” and so on.

Some people just like to be negative.

I disagree. I do think that 7>8>9spd when it comes to durability, and shifting reliability in mud. I’ve not used 10 speed.

Whereas I’ve never actually seen any real difference. In fact, with the refinement of the groupsets, I’d say that they’re shifting better in mud.

I’m not a doom monger, but there’s no doubt 9s is more sensitive to wear, cable contamination etc than 8 and 7, and I can’t see how 10 could reverse that trend.

And yet it doesn’t actually seem to be that way in the real world.

The 10sp chain on my SS needed replacing, I’m disgusted and downright annoyed.

Whereas I’ve never actually seen any real difference. In fact, with the refinement of the groupsets, I’d say that they’re shifting better in mud.

Maybe you’re lucky, or I’m unlucky. I do know that my commuter bike has 19 year-old 7 speed mechs and shifters, and shifts perfectly despite total neglect. I find 9 speed is much more sensitive to cable adjustment and cleanliness, and that thick mud is more likely to make the chain skip. I remember it being particularly noticeable when I first changed from 7 to 8 speed.

I would agree that more modern groupsets are smoother changing though.

And yet it doesn’t actually seem to be that way in the real world.

Directed at my comment? Once you upgrade I think you don’t see the comparison. But if you work on a mix of bikes, either your own, or professionally, it was clear, to me at least, in both circumstances.

I used to break at least one 9 speed chain a year, not broken a single 10 speed one in more than 2 years now. Works for me.

The road climb out of woolacombe (puttsborough end) demands the lowest gear known to mankind, well for me anyway.

It’s a road climb, can’t be that bad! Even with a 36t ring you’ve got a 1:1 bottom gear, which is still far lower than most road bikes.

Correct me if i’m wrong but 8 -> 9 -> 10 all use the same width of freehub bodies. So in theory Shimano squeezed narrower sprockets into the same width. Which meant smaller and narrower teeth on the sprockets.
So being smaller and narrower – it would be hardly surprising to see more rapid wear inline with the trend for cramming more gears.

I <personally> wouldn’t dispute the longevity of drivetrain decreasing with the obsession for more gears.

I do know that my commuter bike has 19 year-old 7 speed mechs

The important word being commuter, it’ll last forever.

My first MTB had a 7 speed drivetrain, after a year the jockey wheels had gone so far past ninja stars they were almsot circular again, and the chain would only stay in the 4 lowest gears. My current tourer/commuter last had a new drivetrain in the 80’s.

The wear rates shouldn’t increace dramaticaly with gear numbers as the plates on the chains aren’t getting much narrower since 8 speed (5/6/7 was thicker IIRC?), and its those that rotate on the pins casuign the wear? Making the sprockets 10% thinner to sit 10% more sprockets on shouldn’t make a difference either as you then use each gear 10% less.

Shifting might suffer as there’s less margin for error, but SRAM solved this ages ago, and shimano caught up with the new pull ratio on 10speed.

The important word being commuter, it’ll last forever.

My 9-speed commuter didn’t. It also needed re-indexing and the cable replacing more frequently.

Clubber – fair enough. i hadnt had a decent coffee at that point! i do know what you mean re the luddites.

10 speed lasts well enough.

In 1 year, (including 100k in a day, passportes) 25+ km a week in the peaks finest mud and grit, i went through one cassette and 2 chains.

I change my gear cable every couple of months, i never get poor shifting, i’m not even on the best of equipment either (according to forums), sram x7.

The only people that think 10 speed will wear out in the week are the ones who are very poor “armchair engineers” who don’t even know the difference in dimensions between 9 and 10 speed drive. Also factor in shimano are running closer to a 1:1 actuation ratio on 10 speed stuff, plus the fact stuff has got simply better, shifting is pretty awesome, pretty much all the time.

I am 1×10, 32-11/36. I don’t miss a granny. My current bike is 33lb (6″/dropper/strong build), i demoed a 27lb carbon pivot 5.7, that had a granny ring. On the climbs it wasn’t “this granny ring makes things nice and easy” it was “this isn’t any easier but it’s taking longer”. I can see the advantage of a granny ring on slow, technical, seated climbs, but not in terms of whether you haven’t a easy enough gear for general riding.

Cool…looks like I’m a “good” armchair engineer 😛

So being smaller and narrower – it would be hardly surprising to see more rapid wear inline with the trend for cramming more gears.

But then you get the benefit of spreading that wear over more sprockets…

Clubber I’m surprised you’ve not seen the studies that show 10s shimano transmission wears better than 9.

I’m suprised too 🙂

So, please excuse me for changing topic a little, but for the very poorly informed like me, can I get a 1 x 10 or a 2 x 10 setup which will give me a granny ring which is as easy to pedal as my run-of-the-mill 3 x 9 setup at present. I live on a hill with a fairly brutal 30 minute climb, and rely heavily on my granny ring.

Depends what ratios you have on your 3×9… If you have a 22×32 then as above, you can’t replicate that with a 1×10 with 32 and 11-36 but you could if you went 22/36 and 11-36 (in fact you’d have even lower gears)

There was something in a euro bike report or similar on the homepage a while back showing a new chain device that e13 are making. It will work with smaller than ‘traditional’ single chain rings. Down to 28t if I recall. So if you had that set up then you could replicate the granny ring ratio. Think e13 will make the rings too. I would love it but can’t seem to find it on sale….

The road climb out of woolacombe (puttsborough end)

Challacombe Hill, can’t say I’ve ever ridden up it but I doubt it would be pleasant whatever gear you’re in 😉

Down to 28t if I recall.

28t single ring? Spin-tacular!