http://www.manchester.gov.uk/blog/leadersblog/post/860/-peak-begging-season

Pretty simple really, don’t give beggars money, food or clothes, then they’ll go somewhere else to ‘prey’ on people (or die). As long as it’s not Manchester.

Was on the news a few weeks ago that local councils were buying homeless people one way tickets up north to get rid of them rather than use the money to try and help them.

There’s a lot more in Leeds too recently, I’m a pretty good judge of character, and these people in the main, simply have fallen on hard times with nowhere to go for help.

It’s only going to get worse and I feel desperately sorry for them, but my reality is that I’m only about 3 paychecks from being in the same position.

The wealth disparity in this country is evil.

As they roll Universal Credit our across the country, the whole homelessness issue is going to get one hell of a lot worse

The compassionate conservative future, as envisaged by Iain Duncan Smith

The amount of homeless on the street in Manchester is truly shocking, and has been getting worse and worse for years now. And for years the solution of the City Council has been to demonise and persecute them, without even a nod to addressing the causes

There but for the grace of god….

I was listening to a radio programme the other day and they were having a discussion about homeless and stats. Apparently at least 70% of homeless people aren’t actually homeless but use begging as a form of income.
I didn’t believe this especially as I was in Manchester last week and it was freezing and wet and it seemed rife, even in the quiet areas.
What I did see however was a “homeless” person get on the bus with his blanket and rucksack and dog etc sit at the back and get out his IPhone to call someone!….

Stoke on Trent city council have had the brainwave to fine homeless people a grand if they are caught sleeping out round the city centre in a tent.
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/revealed-council-plan-fine-rough-787527

Aplogies for the horrific adverts if you click on the link.

What I did see however was a “homeless” person get on the bus with his blanket and rucksack and dog etc sit at the back and get out his IPhone to call someone!….

How destitute does someone have to be? Being homeless means just that, not having a home. It’s doesn’t mean being unable to use public transport, owning a mobile phone (ever though that might have been a pre-homeless possession with a cheap pay-as-you-go simcard?), or any other ‘luxuries’ that you deem to be unsuitable for homeless people.

If your point is to suggest that some beggars are fraudulently conning the public, then yes there are obviously some who may not fit your definition of being a bona-fide homeless person, but even then, asking people for money on the street is hardly a cushy number is it?

I was amazed by how commonplace and how ignored it is in Manchester. No doubt there are beggars that are doing it from choice but if you’re sleeping in a crowded doorway in the pissing rain in October, you’re not doing it as a career. Homelessness and begging are 2 different issues, connected aye but not the same.

I don’t disagree with the argument in the blog- it’s better on balance to get people off the street than to help them when they’re there. But this feels like cart before horse, they’re talking about charity, about proposed changes- are the facilities really there today?

Apparently at least 70% of homeless people aren’t actually homeless but use begging as a form of income

Well that is me convinced as facts dont come more irrefutable than that …bit stats heavy and data driven for some no doubt but convincing nonetheless

when you coupe it with an unevidenced anecdote of the iphone then who amongst us could fail to see the homeless issue as anything other than fraud?

I do agree its better in general to give to charities that help than individuals – i only ever offer food personally

are the facilities really there today?

What do you think? Actually one of the biggest problems is that the facilities that do exist are inaccessible to many. As Mr Leese correctly identifies, many people living on the streets have addiction and mental health problems. Many hostels and other facilities have strict policies about drug/alcohol consumption and challenging behaviour, so homeless people who are chaotic addicts and/or presenting mental illness and all the complexities that involves are not able to use these. It’s a plainly ridiculous situation where the homeless can’t get help for their homelessness until they’ve sorted out their addiction/mental health problems.

dazh – Member

What do you think?

Yeah that was a bit of a leading question, of course they aren’t.

Apparently at least 70% of homeless people aren’t actually homeless but use begging as a form of income

I think that’s just a made up stat by the right wing press to help demonise the poor as unworthy of compassion.

Unless anyone has a reference to the original research?

Noticeably visible the increase of homelessness in Manchester.

How sad considering the UK is one of the richest countries in the world.

I was back long term in the UK for the first in 10 years this summer.

Even in my Essex market town there was an obvious homeless community/contingent that I was never really aware of when I lived there back in 2002-2007. Maybe they were there, but they certainly were not so many more so present.

Conversly, in London, or at least the trendy East End there seemed to be far fewer homeless/down-and-outs than I remember.

The wealth disparity in this country is evil.

This isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to the UK. I see it everyday here in Munich, one of Germany’s richest cities. Go to Frankfurt and the problem is worse, or at least more visible.

Are there any countries/cities which actually have solved homelessness? Any strategies that really do work, and don’t involve ‘exporting’ the problem elsewhere?

I think politics should be much more about taking a good idea from elsewhere instead of trying to invent something from scratch, after all, that’s how a lot of businesses work.

Are there any countries/cities which actually have solved homelessness?

I’m not going to claim the previous labour govt ‘solved’ it, but before the tories got back in and decided to go to war on the poor, there was a distinct lack of street-sleepers in Manchester. Homelessness is a simple function of the lack of support for people at the bottom. If there’s a safety net in the form of benefits, social housing, help with rents etc, and a functioning help and social care system to deal with drug addiction and mental health problems then homelessness is very rare. At the moment we don’t have any of those things.

That’s the nub of it. Austerity has cut so many strands from the safety net that people are ending up on the street in the short term.

Happened to one of my wife’s friends, a schizophrenic with multiple issues, last year.

He took his own life shortly after. That may have happened even if he wasn’t failed by multiple agencies, but we’ll never know for sure.

Noticeably visible the increase of homelessness in Manchester.

I’ve visited loads of cities in Britain over the last year. Unfortunately it’s noticeable in every single city I’ve been to. Even more so than when I lived in London 25 years ago.

It’s the same old shit. Make the instances of homelessness more common then try and stamp it out. They do the same with unemployment and the majority swallow it hook line and sinker. The same old tropes picked up from papers and TV, propagated by word of mouth between fellow angry plebeians.

Bloody Tory councils.

Bloody Tory councils.

Stupid comment. Local councils have neither the power or the resources to solve the problems that cause homelessness. They can try to mop up the mess but they can’t prevent it. Manchester City Council don’t even bother doing that. Their entire approach is to blame the problem on outsiders and ‘over-generous’ Mancunians. The ‘solution’ is simply to move them on somewhere else so they don’t detract from the image of a modern gentrified city.

Stupid comment.

he can also do inane when he really puts some effort into ti

Labour are in disarray on the issue in the city

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/growing-labour-rift-over-housing-13651019

Then again most of their councillors are fighting deselection

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momentum-labour-party-manchester-corbyn-13913626

But the issue is probably harder to deal with than ever before due to Spice and similar drugs that have been a step change to the addiction issues those tackling this need to contend with. Criminality and neglect has destroyed a lot of the affordable housing stock and the local authorities are now tackling numerous challenging issues without a bottomless pit of cash

Labour Manchester City Council are in disarray on the issue in the city

FTFY. The problem is that Richard Leese and his corporate lackies have no interest in solving the problem. The higher echelons of MCC have been in bed with developers since the IRA bomb. As that articles says, they’re very keen to build luxury apartments on flagship ‘regeneration’ schemes but pay little or no attention to the wider problem of social housing for people at the other end of the scale. Add to that their almost religious belief that the homeless in the city are not homeless at all and are instead criminal beggars being sent from afar by drug gangs (they actually believe this) and you have a perfect recipe for the current homeless problem.

Anyway, I wasn’t aware Burnham was so active on this so kudos to him. Hopefully the momentum-led deselection effort will gather pace and the almost Stalinist grip Leese and his mates have on MCC will be broken.

It’s a similar story in Bristol – the number of homeless seems to have skyrocketed.

It will be interesting to see how this Edinburgh project develops.

Break the cycle

It’s that well known old saying . . .

” Give a man a fish and he can eat today.
Give the man a fishing rod and he can eat every day . . . .
Give the same man a one way train ticket and hopefully you’ll never see him again”

Took me a while to find it, and it’s a rather long and rambling in places but there’s a lot of truth in this article about the approach of Manchester City Council towards housing and their links to developers.

Labour aren’t in disarray on this, quite the opposite, there’s 2 groups perfectly arrayed against each other- corporate paid-for arseholes, and people who give a shit. Of course the latter are all Hard Left Momentum Loons apparently but I know Tories that think MCC have gone too far.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-41536766

just hide them in the fire station

Local councils have neither the power or the resources to solve the problems that cause homelessness.

And the reason for that is that central government limits their powers, dumps statutory responsibilities on them and caps their tax income. All governments have done it to a degree but the present one is by far the worst.

This isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to the UK. I see it everyday here in Munich, one of Germany’s richest cities. Go to Frankfurt and the problem is worse, or at least more visible.

The UK is a much more unequal country than Germany, though – that has to have a big impact.

I’m guessing the City of London is skewing that graph quite a bit. I’m surprised the UK has such a higher GDP per person than Germany. Would be interesting to see which regions were the poorest and richest for each country.

Give Andy Burnham chance to get his feet under the table regarding this one.

He has made some bold promises and i hope he can pull it off. The problem in Manchester appears to have sky rocketed….much like a lot other cities.

Nobody should be living like that this day and age.

I thought Manchester and other cities had a no second night rule for homeless people? Not sure where I remember reading or hearing this though.

To put up an observation to go against why spend the night out in the cold, the homeless/beggars in my local town tend to “make” more at night from people walking home then they do in the day. I’l admit in the day, I dont give money to any beggars/homeless but when drunk and walking past I will.

All the local drunks round my way hang out where the highest concentration of sucker office workers are.. Most of the donated food goes in the bin and any money goes straight the local Polish shop for extra strong lager.

Yet the same workers go day after day to offer their cup of steaming soup and 30 seconds compassionate chat regardless.. It must be the modern day equivalent of visiting confession to redeem yourself of any guilt you may be harbouring because it sure as hell doesnt help the dreggs of humanity who sneer into the steaming cup as they walk away..

After a particularly distressing time in my life a few years ago, I had to take a serious look at what might happen if the worst happened… Temporary lack of income coupled with nowhere to live. All the official channels were nothing more than bullshit. I visited the only nearby shelter and was told, “… we don’t do **** guided tours! Come back after you’ve been out a week and make sure you’ve been properly referred (which is almost impossible)”.

Fortunately for me, I managed to get sorted out quite swiftly but it’s terrifying how quickly it can all come crashing down. So I’ll continue to hand out the odd fiver / packet of tobacco, thanks very much.

and any money goes straight the local Polish shop for extra strong lager.

Anything wrong with that?

Yet the same workers go day after day to offer their cup of steaming soup and 30 seconds compassionate chat regardless.. It must be the modern day equivalent of visiting confession to redeem yourself of any guilt you may be harbouring because it sure as hell doesnt help the dreggs of humanity who sneer into the steaming cup as they walk away..

You’ve never stopped to talk to someone on the streets have you?

Most are very grateful for warm food / drinks and have pretty harrowing stories to tell….

elzorillo – Member

All the local drunks round my way hang out where the highest concentration of sucker office workers are.. Most of the donated food goes in the bin and any money goes straight the local Polish shop for extra strong lager.

Yet the same workers go day after day to offer their cup of steaming soup and 30 seconds compassionate chat regardless.. It must be the modern day equivalent of visiting confession to redeem yourself of any guilt you may be harbouring because it sure as hell doesnt help the dreggs of humanity who sneer into the steaming cup as they walk away..

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

As trolls go, this is rubbish – no guile, no pretence at intellect.

0/10.