That picture is a late 90's/00's scooter with plastic mod mirrors. The whole mirror thing lasted about 6 months in the 60's, but because it was in Quadro it must be true! Do some research!

FFs does it matter??! The point is that those stupid scooters were crap then and are crap now, unless you're an old lady needing to get down to the village to buy some eggs. You'd need a lift back though as the sodding thing would have broken down.

You understand absolutely nothing about the sixties.

One of the greatest eras of marketing bullshit. In fact, quite possibly the era that spawned the modern lust for consumer goods, designer labels and consumerism as we know it today.

Bag o' shite, the lot of it.

At least the Rockers had bikes that could outrun a mobility cart.

lol! still like yer style mate.

One of the greatest eras of marketing bullshit. In fact, quite possible the era that spawned the modern lust for consumer goods, designer labels and consumerism as we know it today.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

In the sixties, the fashion, the music, and the life styles, all came from the youth themselves. The trailblazers were the newly liberated postwar teenagers of the fifties, who because of the war, had grown up with unprecedented freedom from parental control and influence.

The establishment and the consumer market providers of the fifties and sixties, had absolutely no idea what was happening, and were certainly not in anyway able to control or manipulate the situation – most of which they intensely disapproved.

This carried on right through to the seventies, with the final free and independent youth culture being the punks.

By the eighties, the teenagers of the sixties had become middle-aged business men. Their knowledge, understanding, and personal experience of youth culture, gave them huge advantages which previous generations of business men had not possessed.

From the eighties onwards, all youth fashion, music, and life styles, was completely dominated by business interests.

And so we find ourselves in the desperately sad situation today, where the present youth have nothing which they can call their own – everything is marketed and sold to them. Tragically, they are perfectly willing to oblige and conform, without the slightest inclination to rebel 🙁

Somos los mods, somos los mods, somos, somos, somos los mods!

Doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

The point is that those stupid scooters were crap then and are crap now, unless you're an old lady needing to get down to the village to buy some eggs. You'd need a lift back though as the sodding thing would have broken down.

Aye, righto. Funny how me and many others manage to cover thousands of miles going to rallies then without breaking down.

What's your issue with scooters really? Is being into them really any different to being in to mountain bikes???

Somos los Mods! 8)

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Oh, and you do, I suppose?

60s fashion, in Britain at least, was fuelled by the new-found affluence following on from the austerity of the 50s. People had a bit more money to spend on stuff like clothes and music. Styles were created by European fashion houses rebuilding themselves, and Goldsmiths students like Mary Quant. Music? Much of it was coming across the pond, from the well-established American 'industry'. The 'kids' simply adopted what was being sold to them through popular media. The Beatles were a manufactured pop band. British styles were heavily influenced by peoples coming from the former colonies of the West Indies, or the India subcontinent.

Fashion wasn't something invented by a bunch of kids in a suburb in Croydon. They just had a bit more money to buy it.

Funny how me and many others manage to cover thousands of miles going to rallies

Nah it was only hundred. It just felt like thousands because it took so long at 20mph.

Nah, only kidding. Scooters are ok, quite cute really. I've got nothing against them. Might buy me mum one.

You do know that all the mirrors were to provide extra rear visibility to see other vehicles bearing down on you, so that you could get out of the way?

Tragically, they are perfectly willing to oblige and conform, without the slightest inclination to rebel

so says you.. I believe that the chav phenomena is the closet relation to any sort of sentimental notions you have of a rebellious youth culture..

I know they are knocked and disparaged and abhorred by the older generation who cannot comprehend them.. but as a rebel youth movement I feel the drug taking.. fake trainer wearing.. tesco value shellsuit adorned.. sneering at law and order chav has a legitimate anti establisment ethos that should be commended by anyone claiming to have roots in any historically edgy youth movement..

😉

Oh, and you do, I suppose?

Well I obviously know more than you.

"The Beatles were a manufactured pop band."

You really have no idea.

The Cavern…….not the "Britain's Got Talent stage"

.

so says you..

Yup, it was me what said it – today's youth completely conform ……..in every respect … fashion, music, and politics.

weren't mods about conforming though? dressing well and getting a job to pay for your lifestyle accessories?

or have I missed something?

The Cavern…….

Ringo was a lot better looking in those days..

What, the mods dressed like their dads ? And only youth who were unemployed in the sixties were nonconforming?

LOL !

You really have no idea.

Well you have less than no idea, which must be -idea.

From Wiki:

Sutcliffe remained in Hamburg with his new German fiancée, Astrid Kirchherr, for another month. Kirchherr took the first professional photos of the group and cut Sutcliffe's hair in the German "exi" (existentialist) style of the time, a look later adopted by the other Beatles.

And:

Astrid Kirchherr was born in 1938 in Hamburg, Germany, and is the daughter of a former executive of the German branch of the Ford Motor Company. During World War II she was evacuated to the safety of the Baltic Sea where she remembered seeing dead bodies on the shore (after the ships Cap Arcona and the SS Deutschland had been bombed and sunk) and the destruction in Hamburg when she returned.[1]
After her graduation Kirchherr enrolled in the Meisterschule für Mode, Textil, Graphik und Werbung in Hamburg, as she wanted to study fashion design but demonstrated a talent for black and white photography.[2][3] Reinhard Wolf, the school's main photographic tutor, convinced her to switch courses and promised that he would hire her as his assistant when she graduated.[4] Kirchherr worked for Wolf as his assistant from 1959 until 1963.

So, the iconic 'mop-top' was invented by a Middle Class German art student. Rock and roll, man.

mate… ernie.. a little mutual respect would be appreciated here rather than your patronising sneer..

I have no idea about the sixties.. I'm only 36 years old.. I have a mild interest as my mum had a Lambretta and a succession of vespas.. but she'll readily admit it was because she was a fashion victim… so I have little idea what it is that is making you so emotional..
I'm just trying to get some insight.. I'm not after an argument and certainly not after being mocked..
thanks man

art student

So an "art student" proves they were "manufactured" ? ! 😀

I thought they were all, apart from Ringo, "art students" btw.

rather than your patronising sneer..

Oh alright then………..shame …..I was amusing myself 😀 😐

All 'pop' bands are 'manufactured' to a greater or lesser extent. Certainly the Beatles were, by their manager: Choice of clothes, style, their music (in the early days) were chosen by Epstein. Doesn't make it less valid.

My dad was a coach driver and as a kid used to go on trips with him in the summer
Can remember the mods and rockers having a punch up in some of the seaside towns

Bit scary at the time for me as a nipper, but thinking back wasn't actually much and very similar to the footie hoolies of the 70's and 80's

Do wonder why all these so called fashions make the wearers look such prats. What about Teds and Skins, not a pretty sight, then we have new romantics and goths, less than pleasant.

ernie_lynch – Member

rather than your patronising sneer..

Oh alright then………..shame …..I was amusing myself

Ooh. Last time I did that, I was being more nasty than Hitler, apparently…

Anyway, I was a teen in the sixties. I can tell you that my generation's parents were TERRIFIED.

Grumpy ex-Colonel type: "I fought in the war for the likes of you!"

Lennon: "I bet you're sorry you won"… 😆

Mr Woppit – Member

ernie_lynch – Member

rather than your patronising sneer..

"Oh alright then………..shame …..I was amusing myself"

"Ooh. Last time I did that, I was being more nasty than Hitler, apparently…"

.

The last time you did what ……..call me "patronising" ?

I think you'll find that it was here :

Mr Woppit – Member

Patronising pillock.

Posted 1 week ago

And my response to that was :

ernie_lynch – Member

Oh dear……..you are touchy 😐

Posted 1 week ago

No mention of "more nasty than Hitler" …….so you're talking shite again Woppit
….. at least you're consistent mate 😀

All 'pop' bands are 'manufactured' to a greater or lesser extent. Certainly the Beatles were, by their manager….

Yes bands in the sixties had managers, but the Beatles were not 'manufactured'. They formed themselves, and existed and had a following many years before Epstein became their manager.

Managers in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, simply promoted their bands and gave them access to a wider audience, but the choice of music and fashion, and rejection of existing norms, came overwhelmingly from teenagers themselves. Today the situation is quite different.

The only band from that era that I can think of which was actually "manufactured" and was highly successful and had a sizeable following, was the American entertainment industry's answer to the Beatles the Monkees. But then of course they were simply reacting to a gap in the US market which was being dictated to a large extent by teenagers, and at the time Nashville wasn't having quite the same global influence which Liverpool was having.

As it happens, the Monkees were weren't a bad band at all 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihXygclhvsI

Oh for the love of the sweet little baby Jesus, not you two at it AGAIN!???!

Elfinsafety – Member
Oh for the love of the sweet little baby Jesus, not you two at it AGAIN!???!

I'm confused. I always thought you and Ernie were the same person 😕

Wash your mouth out!

How can you compare me, what is nice and peaceful, with that 'orrible curmudgeon? He's always starting fights.

And so we find ourselves in the desperately sad situation today, where the present youth have nothing which they can call their own – everything is marketed and sold to them. Tragically, they are perfectly willing to oblige and conform, without the slightest inclination to rebel

We're too busy dancing our tits off in Mancunian Warehouses – an industry in itself. Why would we want to rebel against something like that?

I just thought it was like some weird fight club thing…

I just thought it was like some weird fight club thing…

+2

The last time you did what ……..call me "patronising" ?

Nope.

Oh alright then………..shame …..I was amusing myself

That, actually.

so you're talking shite again Woppit

If you say so. I'm sure you know best.

And so we find ourselves in the desperately sad situation today, where the present youth have nothing which they can call their own – everything is marketed and sold to them. Tragically, they are perfectly willing to oblige and conform, without the slightest inclination to rebel

Couldn't agree more Ernie. Music should come from the soul. Bring back flower power. 😉

Peace.

Music should come from the soul. Bring back flower power.

Peace.

Bless you my child.

As I said ………"I had considerable more time for hippies" 8)

And I was indeed a big Neil Young fan. In fact it was Neil Young who was the first person to break the hold Motown/Soul/Reggae had on me.

Actually it was this one, which first made me sit up and notice Neil Young : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOl01vKXv6I

Good link there and that footage was most enjoyable! Neil Young manages to produce some brilliant stuff as well as some truly awful offerings – you never know whether you will love or hate an album.

I just detest the posturings these days – so shallow. Blimey, am sounding truly ancient here!

Quadrophenia is on ITV4 at 11.40. That's in 20 minutes.

And so we find ourselves in the desperately sad situation today, where the present youth have nothing which they can call their own – everything is marketed and sold to them. Tragically, they are perfectly willing to oblige and conform, without the slightest inclination to rebel

You've come up with some shit in your time, but this…this is just so dull , so predictable that clearly you've no effing idea what's going on in the music industry right now.

you've no effing idea what's going on in the music industry right now.

I imagine, and I can only imagine as I haven't been in the UK for 10 years, that the mass market of music is provided by corporations and marketing teams. Dig a little deeper and you should find grass roots music. This was a service provided by the late, great John Peel. I imagine that this did not die with him. Maybe the music which gets the exposure is the crap which the majority follow, but the new, innovative music driven by the artists exists. Look for it.

If you're sitting at home whinging about the youth of today having no backbone.. and then tuning in the wireless to listen to their corporate approved playlists to prove your point.. or attending a few goverment sanctioned pop festivals.. then having a rant about it with your middle class middle aged muckers on an interminably dull and jaded web forum.. then I imagine that your reactionary stance that you learnt from every generation that has ever gone before will cause you some dissatisfaction.. if only because you are realising that you have inperceptably become the very institution that you thought you despised as a fresh faced speed addled teenager..

I like that John Peel has passed.. thus severing the leak that allowed the ageing and desperately unhip to 'connect' with what might be happening.

Politics has been made dull.. and protest is futile.. enjoy what you've got.. it's easy if you try..

I think really we have to blame the internet.. anything is available for anyone who cares to look.. there is no mystery and certainly no offshore pirate Deejays living out their own fading rebel fantasies.. Uniting and subversing the tender young minds of our nations youth with their risque innuendo..

vive la difference

nickc – Member

You've come up with some shit in your time, but this…this is just so dull , so predictable that clearly you've no effing idea what's going on in the music industry right now.

I reckon your comment says more about how little you know about the sixties, than my comment says how little I do about what's going on in the music industry right now.

Firstly of you read my posts you would have seen that I wasn't just talking about music but also fashion, lifestyles, politics, etc.

Quite unlike today, the changes and the radical challenging of the existing status quote which effected youth during the sixties, were overwhelmingly lead by the youth themselves.

Youth had real power and real influence. They were as vital to the ending of the Vietnam War as the Vietcong themselves. They were the driving force behind the new "permissiveness". In France they nearly brought about the collapse of one of the most stable countries in the world. From the west coast of America the hippy movement, with it's lifestyle and new morality, spread throughout the western world. In London, LSE students provided a constant headline grabbing radical challenge.

There is nothing comparable this today. And there is nothing which compares with The Kinks, The Animals, or The Rolling Stones either. These weren't obscure bands which the older generation had "no effing idea" about. These were a global phenomena who grabbed the headlines, however much the establishment disapproved.

Liverpool didn't become the most important city in the world for music (with it's huge economic impact on Britain) because it was the centre of the established British music industry. It was simply because that's the way youth culture at that time happened to develop.

Today there is no Woodstock/3 day nation phenomena; James Taylor, Carol King. These were not "manufactured" bands, artists, or music – massive as they were – they had their very roots in the youth of the time.

Rightly or wrongly, youth in the sixties had some power and influence – much to the annoyance of the establishment; which was conservative, pro-war, racist, anti long hair/scruffy clothes, anti gay, and anti rock music, etc, etc. I can't see how anyone can argue that the situation is the same today.

Finally nickc, your post was clearly full of anger. Now I don't if you'd had a bad day, but I can't imagine getting angry on a thread on a internet MTB forum which is discussing youth culture in the sixties. I would suggest that you save your anger for more appropriate issues…….that's a TopTip that is 8)

Yawn.

Is that the time?

Yes…….go to bed

I'm going, I'm going…

Amazingly, I find myself actually agreeing with e_l's last post. The Beatles were not manufactured, they were managed, and advised on what to wear, but were they just a bunch of lads who answered an ad in a trade paper and had all the songs given to them? 'course they frakkin' weren't! They all knew one another and hung out. They wrote their own songs, and that immediately set them apart from all the Pat Boone's then filling the charts, who sang songs supplied by the Tin Pan Alley/Brill Building writers like Goffin and King. The Who weren't a manufactured band, anymore than the Kinks or the Stones. The Monkees were put together as an answer to the Beatles, but, despite having a great songwriter in Michael Nesmith, most of their material was supplied by the likes of Neil Diamond. Chart music nowadays is sadly full of stuff that is just churned out to fit a template, put together by producers who find some kids who has the right look and attitude, using autotune to disguise the fact few can actually sing, thrown over a bunch of samples and preset rhythms. On the occasions when I spend any time at work having to listen to Radio 1 on iPlayer, I honestly cannot identify a single act, apart from the odd occasion when Fern plays someone like Laura Marling, who does have an identifiable voice. Part of the problem seems to be that a lot of teenagers listen to music through their mobile's speaker, so there's just a tinny buzz; what the act actually sounds like is totally irrelevant, everything sounds the same anyway. At least 6Music is still there for those who actually like music.

ernie_lynch – Member

From the eighties onwards, all youth fashion, music, and life styles, was completely dominated by business interests.

I'm sure that'll come as a surprise to anyone who's ever been into hardcore (punk), the college rock scene that morphed into indie rock breaking out of the underground, hip hop (the 4 elements, not the bastardised product you see on MTV Base) or rave culture/the free party scene.

All from the eighties onwards and all of which defy your statement.

Read:

Our Band Could Be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground, 1981-1991 by Michael Azerrad

Get in the Van (The Black Flag Tour Diaries) by Henry Rollins

Read Steven Blush's American Hardcore or watch Paul Rachman's documentary of the same name.

If you're looking for fiercely independent youth culture you're bound to note obvious parallels.