Just had some brand new Grail rims built up by a wheel-builder in Halifax.

They are out of true after 100km of lightweight road riding.

I’m 79kg.

Is this unacceptable? They have not bee ridden hard what so ever.

If I’m honest they went out of true after 20km.

Guy offers free truing for life.

I’ll name and shame.

What are your thoughts?

How bad, both of them?

Perfectly normal bedding in. Why name and shame if he offers free truing for life?

It’s not ideal but can happen. Get the builder to true them, if it keeps happening then I’d be unhappy.

No that’s shocking, not been built properly, if I’d put wheels together that badly I’d have been fired!

I took a freshly build pair of wheels out to Flanders, and they are still true, after a week on the cobbles.

My wheelbuilder tells me to bring them back to him after 100 miles or so for a true up, as he expects a degree of bedding in. I don’t think I’ve ever done this in all the years he’s built my wheels – haven’t had to, maybe I’ve just been lucky.

If he wasn’t offering to true them free for life for you, I could see you being upset. Just take them back, talk to him.

Free truing for life sounds like a BS warranty to me. Should I really need these wheels truing after 100k’s of easy riding.

They were pinging out of the block first ride.

My stock wheels on Alex rims fine. So I expressly made it clear they were for touring and needed to be ultra reliable.

I’m not doing downhill runs.

brand new wheels will ping at first though…..

lightweight road riding.

I’m 79kg.

so not that lightweight then?

Fairly normal for wheels to need a tune up when they’re new, loads of places offer this for free. Take em in, get them trued and if it happens again then you know you’ve got issues.

So how would you like this resolved?Is him truing them unacceptable to you.Would you particularly like to ruin someones reputation?Do you need a hug?

Only if they have been ‘wound up’ when tightening the nipples. IMO a good wheelbuilder will not let that happen, or remove the wind up.

One advantage of straight pull spokes is you can’t do this. You need to hold the spoke whilst tightening up the nipple, otherwise it just spins.

I’ll only name and shame if it’s not the norm and I’ve been had by a sub par builder.

I have read its not the norm so I’m looking for opinions that are real world from real world builders who know their stuff.

Only if they have been ‘wound up’ when tightening the nipples. IMO a good wheelbuilder will not let that happen, or remove the wind up.

Yep, not that hard to avoid if you’re aware of it. None of the c.15 pairs of wheels I’ve built have pinged and I’m a total amateur at it…

IMO naming and shaming only if they are re-trued (as per his guarantee) and it happens again but up to you!

Why wouldn’t you just go back and ask him to true them up, no big deal….wheels can go out of true for all sorts of reasons, give him a chance to honor his guarantee , fine to ‘name and shame’ if genuine bad service but you’re not there yet

Pinging is different to bedding in. If you ever take an old wheel apart, you’ll find that the spoke elbow has deformed itself a groove in the hub flange, that takes some time to happen. So it’s not that unusual for even properly-built wheels to need a tighten, depending on how that happens.

We’ve all heard of wheel builders who offer this kind of bedding-in, re-tension service, so yes, it’s ‘normal’…

However, Once in a while, if you’re lucky, you’ll find a wheel builder who’ll say something like ‘I remember when I had to do that’.

I don’t think you’ve been had or defrauded.

Give the chap a chance to rectify matters before getting your knickers in a twist.

You could have a go truing them yourself I find it quite enjoyable and it’s simple really just go slow.

brand new wheels will ping at first though…..

no, they won’t, if they’re built properly.

I built my first wheels using the guide on Sheldon Brown, and was geeky enough to buy (the late) Jobst Brandt’s book.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stress-relieving.html

so not that lightweight then?

I assumed the OP meant the riding was lightweight, not him.

But yes, I’d take them back, tell him you’re not hugely impressed with their build and maybe ask him why he thinks they’ve gone out of true.

If wheels are built properly they should not need any further attention unless you suffer an impact i.e. pothole or crash

If a wheel builder is having to offer a post build retrue then they don’t know what they are doing

If you look at quality factory wheels, they really don’t go out of true unless impacted, because they are built to very high tolerances with several cycles of stress before final tension/ true.

I’ve built over 600 pairs of handbuilts and repaired numerous factory wheels damaged in crashes, my early wheels I quickly learnt from and then built wheels that did not need further attention

The update:

I took the wheels back for truing. They left the stand ok according to the builder.

When you was tightening up some nipples made that cringing over torqued pop. He said it was due to Sapim Spoke freeze.

Upon inflation to 100 psi there are quite a few loose spokes and the wheel is out of true.

Its been a farce from beginning to end. I have demanded a refund.

Where do I stand legally in posting up our conversations over email?

If he gives you a refund then there’s no need to posting up anything.

I’m pretty much an amateur when it comes to wheel building but I somehow seem to manage to build without needing any subsequent tweaking (including re-using old hubs). Maybe there are certain combinations that are more troublesome/tolerant.

And spoke-freeze? Why?

Sapim Spoke freeze

🙄 even my wheels don’t need that

always used Spa cycles for my handbuilt wheels. 125kg and they never need retruing after the 1st rides.
just bought some hanbuilt wheels from JRA. pricier by a fair bit. not ridden em yet. i hope they are good.

125Kg? You have 8 wheels??

Rachel

100psi is pretty high in a Grail? Could be pushing the sidewall out, which is causing the loss of tension.

With regards “Sapim Spoke Freeze” which I have now googled and found is some sort of thread locker, do “professional” wheel builders actually use this stuff? I mean, I never have, but then I’m not a pro however I am still here.

Spokes going out of true upon a tyre inflating rings huge alarm bells to me, regardless of the rims. I know people advocate over-tightening spokes with road tubeless because this can slacken things off a bit but going out of true? Really?

john_l has it. Back in the day, 517s would come apart because of folk doing this.

Stans say max psi is 116.

Exactly, inaccurate gauge & you’re pretty close to the max.

New wheels don’t need to ping and don’t need to go out of true if they’re built properly.

I had a rim recently that seemed to suffer compression with tubeless but it didn’t go out of true, I just felt the spokes were under tensioned. Compensated for the compression with a bit more tension and its been cock on since.

I grease nipples rather than use any sort of locking compound. Nipples hold by spoke tension, not glue.

The problem is, everyone who knows someone who builds wheels says they’re a fantastic wheelbuilder. Lots of them are just average. One of the reasons I do all my own is because one of these local stars built some wheels that varied from 17 to 23 on the rear drive side using a park tension meter. Wheel building isn’t difficult but there are things that need to be considered. It sounds like on the OPs wheels they haven’t considered all of them.

Wheels I built myself only needed truing after I’d dinged them..badly.

I built a set of grails on XT hubs for my Croix de fer. Have used them for a few hundred miles and deliberately didn’t tension them very high as the rims are so stiff and I wanted a comfy ride, Still true though.
I wonder if your wheels being disc have highlighted a poor build that much sooner?

I mentioned receipt also and have not had a reply back. Everything people have said on here resonates with a substandard build.

I paid £150 but this included a rear hub.

I supplied brand new rims.

I know I have been transparent and everybody deserves to put their case forward but I’m so tempted to expose this charlatan and his 30 years experience.