a_a ‘bit off’ .

And for me thats part of the weirdness. I can’t imagine living in a society where I think there is a significant possibility that I might have to draw a gun and kill someone as I go about my daily business.

even in the roughest parts of the US it wouldn’t be a significant possibility. there are plenty of cops that go their entire career without firing their guns off the range (which is why some of them are terrible shots when it is time to use them).

And I think that is the point Konabunny, people have worked themselves up so much that if they don’t have a gun they will be robbed and killed. They have a gun and they haven’t been robbed and killed so it’s all OK.

It’s being in a place where half the people around you are armed for no good or real reason ready to shoot someone who looks at them funny (by not being white normally)

there are plenty of cops that go their entire career without firing their guns off the range

And yet some US cops fire off more bullets in one traffic stop than the whole UK police force fire in a year.

people have worked themselves up so much that if they don’t have a gun they will be robbed and killed. They have a gun and they haven’t been robbed and killed so it’s all OK.

Though you can see the same ‘logic’ in any helmet thread on here.

You only have to look at the survivalists to see that there are, indeed, lots of very paranoid individuals over there.

Steady on. You make it sound like they are a large portion of society – if you have evidence for this you should say, otherwise you’re not really being fair on the vast majority of moderate normal Americans.

Though you can see the same ‘logic’ in any helmet thread on here.

Not really – there’s no real downside to society if we all wear helmets is there?

Of all I’ve met, 5 admit to owning guns, one commented on how he felt it was normal to carry it and everyone else just has a life without guns.

I know a few gun-owners, and they are viewed simply as sporting equippment, like you or I would our bikes. I don’t know anyone who carries.

As a sweeping generalisation it’s been said that the sane ones have at least tried to escape and can mostly be found around the coast.

Other anecdotal stuff is the guys who write the software I sell have an arsenal in the office and sit at their desks with handguns on their belts.

Not really

I was referring to just the “I wear and haven’t died” logic.

– there’s no real downside to society if we all wear helmets is there?

Arguably: increased helmet use leads to increased perception of risk leads to reduced cycling leads to long term health consequences and more dangerous roads. That’s not as immediately apparent as being shot in the face, but we have far more people dying from inactivity than we do from head wounds.

Yes, very arguably. I remain unconvinced that helmets are more dangerous than guns tbh 😉

I remain unconvinced that helmets are more dangerous than guns tbh

I’d rather wear a helmet than get shot in the face 🙂

a_a ‘bit off’ .

True, but the he worked for Fox…. doing sensationalist shite that perpetuates the problem.

Again, you can’t compare a country like the US to the UK. Completely different system.

This is total horse shit.

They are both democratic countries. If it was politically expedient to ban hand guns in the US it would happen. But it isn’t because most of the population don’t want gun control. Either becuase the think having guns is good or because they think guns are bad but denying people the right to have them is worse.

Their balance between civil liberties and stopping people getting killed is off kilter based on our view.

They collectively seem to be OK with the balance they have chosen but the conseqence of that is to outsiders they seem like a very uncivilised and unpleaseant society.

If it was politically expedient to ban hand guns in the US it would happen.

I don’t think so – even if politicians wanted it, it’s impossible from a practical point of view.

most of the population don’t want gun control

I think about half of Americans want stricter gun control, so beware of painting them all as gun toting nuts or ultra-libertarians.

These are good:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA&index=3&list=PLoO6eym0L0F3mJ7qk4ogi8loeiMH8Osrj[/video]

I think about half of Americans want stricter gun control, so beware of painting them all as gun toting nuts or ultra-libertarians.

I’m not. I’m painting them as a country who is incapable of controlling their gut toting ultra libertarians to the standards displayed by other civilised countries.

I don’t think so – even if politicians wanted it, it’s impossible from a practical point of view.

Nothing is impossible if enough people want it. It practically can’t happen now because not enough people want it but if that were to change a mechanism for the change can be agreed. Its only words on a piece of paper, not fundamental rules of physics.

A nine year old will most likely be scarred for life and a family have lost a dad. These seems like the important points of this sad story

Gun control will occur in the states when somebody makes the NRA disappear. As with most bits of politics especially in the US it’s not the majority that counts, it’s the majority of the money. When you have rich and powerful people bankrolling the pro gun side it’s not going to end.

Nothing is impossible if enough people want it. It practically can’t happen now because not enough people want it

In theory – but how would you get rid of all the guns that already exist?

True, but the he worked for Fox…. doing sensationalist shite that perpetuates the problem.

He won’t have been working for Fox – he’ll have been working for a production company with zero job security, poor pay, no benefits, no health insurance and no steady income. There’s been a good series of articles on Gawker about the dangerous and exploitative conditions that unscripted TV workers have to put up with if they want to work.

But hey – it’s another opportunity for people to sneer and feel self righteous about a death at work!

in theory – but how would you get rid of all the guns that already exist?

how did it happen here in the uk? did gun owners have to hand in their firearms?

I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like as many guns here as they have in the US…

Yep, there was an amnesty – they were all licensed so the police had records of who had what and they got the vast majority in without having to pursue the owners at all. When my shotgun licence expired I handed in a box of cartridges at the local police station – the WPC behind the counter was a bit perturbed to say the least.

Edit – i think some people had them deactivated so they could have scary paperweights or sominck and they had to be certified as such

Ah, the number of coppers who think you need a certificate to possess shotgun cartridges 🙂

Even better is the ones who don’t actually understand the law on firearms and highway s….

I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like as many guns here as they have in the US…

The figure I saw for the States was 97 guns per 100 population, so just over 300 million firearms. That’s a scary number.

Over here, there were relatively few handguns when they were made illegal so it was relatively trivial to have an amnesty. I assume, the States would have to head slowly towards an outright ban by gradually making it harder and harder to purchase/own over time. They could start with not selling assault weaponry in supermarkets, a minimum age for operating an Uzi, etc. and work from there.

The figure I saw for the States was 97 guns per 100 population, so just over 300 million firearms. That’s a scary number.

Is that the legal ones, or all of them?

as ever, wiki has an enlightening list of guns per capita:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I assume, the States would have to head slowly towards an outright ban by gradually making it harder and harder to purchase/own over time

This

Phase 1
Make concealed carry illegal but you can keep you gun locked up at home
Ban sale of all automatic weaponry
Hand in amenesty of all the big scary millitary hardware

Phase 2
Ban sale of hand guns
Hand in amenesty of all automatic weapons

…

Phase 27
Regular police hand in their weapon.

Obviously this would be a huge undertaking but it’s not impossible. Where there is a will there is a way. The wealthy gun lobby is an issue but there is a limit to how much money you can throw at a problem, just ask the tabaco industry.

Again, you can’t compare a country like the US to the UK. Completely different system.

This is total horse shit

I am assuming you haven’t travelled to or lived in the US. Go to Georgia, Alabama, NY, California, Iowa… and compare the people, lifestyle. Then try and get your head around local, county, state, and federal law system.

Add on top of that a land area the size of the entirity of Europe and a population 6 times that of the UK, you will realise you can’t directly compare the two countries.

Wasn’t that sound guy killed by a police bullet? The robber had an imitation gun or something. Shows how gung ho some of those cops are. They’d previously been under investigation for several other incidents. Was on R4 this morning but can’t find info now as in work.

Obviously this would be a huge undertaking but it’s not impossible. Where there is a will there is a way.

Yeah the problem would be all the willing criminals who would totally ignore the law. Robbing gas stations and shooting gang memebers is already illegal, one more law to break won’t make a difference. The guns won’t ever be handed in.

Yeah the problem would be all the willing criminals who would totally ignore the law. Robbing gas stations and shooting gang memebers is already illegal, one more law to break won’t make a difference. The guns won’t ever be handed in.

Unless you triple the penalty for any crime where use of a handgun is involved.

Wasn’t that sound guy killed by a police bullet? The robber had an imitation gun or something. Shows how gung ho some of those cops are. They’d previously been under investigation for several other incidents. Was on R4 this morning but can’t find info now as in work.

He was – the robber had a fake gun so the only people shooting were the police.

He was – the robber had a fake gun so the only people shooting were the police.

I thought so. I understand the pressure of that kind of situation and understand the gunman being shot as its a split second decision but surely its beyond comprehension that the sound guy was caught in the crossfire. I’ve got my tin foil hat on for this.

Haven’t scoped this entire thread but has anyone questioned the parent that decided it was fine for his/her 9 yr old daughter to fire an Uzi and like why? What possible way was her life going to be enhanced by firing a sub machine gun and as it is, she is now damaged for life, she’ll carry that with her for ever poor kid. I have no sympathy for the instructor, the school or anyone else, madness.

I mean even if you could here, would you? Let your baby girl fire a bloody machine gun?

It’s also common knowledge they lift, basic procedure is to instruct that much to grown ups, why did he switch it to auto? Anyone with the remotest intelligence about the subject could have predicted that possibility.

Horrible just horrible, left me speechless.

has anyone questioned the parent that decided it was fine for his/her 9 yr old daughter to fire an Uzi and like why?

Parents weren’t neccessarily there or doing the supervision…?

Parents were the ones filming.

Parents weren’t neccessarily there

The parents were the ones filming according to the news.

Unless you triple the penalty for any crime where use of a handgun is involved.

At what point does the robber have nothing to lose by opening fire rather than being caught?

The robber had an air soft gun , fires plastic balls .
And fired it at the police so no sympathy.

He would have been better throwing it away and having on his toes of he did not want to hand himself in.

When they banned handguns in this country they had to compensate all owners book value of all guns handed in.
All the people I know did very well financially out of handing the guns in although still very pissed of about it.

The robber had an air soft gun , fires plastic balls .
And fired it at the police so no sympathy.

No sympathy at all for the scrote, my point was how the hell did the police manage to shoot the sound recordist? You don’t have to have much training in firearms to know that your field of fire is critical to your colleagues safety. They would all have known this or shouldn’t be behind a large caliber pistol. Ricochet is a possibility I suppose but unlikely as it found a gap in a kevlar vest.

The way I read it was they shot the robber he then ran past them and out the door and at some point the sound man found himself between the robber and the police.

There would be a real chance of a sound man running around following police in a gun fight getting shot by a criminal you would think but would not be inconceivable to be shot by the police.

What are the laws for an officer using there gun.

If someone starts shooting at you across a busy restaurant for instance are you allowed to shoot back they must find them selfs under fire in public places.