Comparing a much smaller homogeneous country like the UK to the USA is a completely pointless exercise. What you neeed to do is take the entirety of Europe and compare then you might be getting closer.

One things for sure, look at the levels of violent crime by country and the UK is number 2 in the world. Highest in Europe.

As i said, people in glasshouses…

What gun to carry on rides

Comparing a much smaller homogenous country like the UK to the USA is a completly pointless exercise. What you neeed to do is take the entirety of Europe and compare then you might be getting closer.

Hence using the rate per 100000 rather than totals.

One things for sure, look at the levels of violent crime by country and the UK is number 2 in the world. Highest in Europe.

As mentioned above, there are hugely different definitions of ‘violent’ crime and recording/reporting varies.

As mentioned above, there are hugely different definitions of ‘violent’ crime and recording/reporting varies.

Oh, that’s alright then. As long as our violent crime is not as bad as other peoples….

Oh, and then there’s this. If you don’t report it, it didn’t happen, right??

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/01/uk-police-failing-record-20-percent-crime-report

In America you can buy a mini gun ( normally attached to military helicopters and seen raining shell casings in films ) and bolt it to the roof of your pick up and shot the shit out of some stuff with a few buddies and a six pack .

Just seen the video on the news, the young girl did not even have it shouldered with the fold out stock.

I repeat Darwin strikes again.

As long as our violent crime is not as bad as other peoples….

Well, yes.

From here:

the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a “violent crime” as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

The British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.”

Just seen the video on the news, the young girl did not even have it shouldered with the fold out stock.

Have another look at the video, stock was unfolded and up against her shoulder.

The gun looked too low to be shouldered correctly (from memory of what i just saw. )

One things for sure, look at the levels of violent crime by country and the UK is number 2 in the world. Highest in Europe.

Britain is the 2nd most violent society in the world? You know there is something that doesn’t feel quite right about statement.

chip – Member
The gun looked too low to be shouldered correctly

Seriously there is no sensible way for a 9 year old kid to be holding a machine gun.

The southern part of Idaho is very Mormon / LDS – with a similar attitude to alcohol as you’d find in Utah.

Ah, I guess that explains it Mogrim. On the same trip we got chatting to a young girl in a western store in Oregon and were recounting how we’d been pulled over earlier that week in Washington state . . . “you have any guns in the car ma’am?” She was really surprised that we didn’t carry anything as in her region it was normal practice to keep a gun on the dashboard of your car.

Totally different cultures/laws in different regions but very sad news all the same.

Seriously there is no sensible way reason for a 9 year old kid to be holding a machine gun.

ftfy

Video

This video appears to stop after the gun jumps towards instructor but short of him being shot .

And you are right the stock is being used, just not properly.

miketually – Member

As long as our violent crime is not as bad as other peoples….

Well, yes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-28933960

This was a “brutal” knife attack, is there anything other than a brutal knife attack?

I agree she should not be using one,
But she is not out with her dad cletus, she is meant to be under the supervision of an instructor how should have known she was incapable of using the gun safely.

Hundreds of drunk and drugged up Mancs and Scousers go to Tallinn and Riga every year to fire off Uzis and other weapons of mass destruction. Its all part of the process of natural selection.

If you judge a nation of 314 million people spread over 3.8 million square miles by the actions of vocal minorities then you’ll get a rather skewed view of things.

If a majority of 314 million people fail to act to prevent a minority from defining who they are then I’d say it’s fair to judge the whole by the actions of a few and the inaction of the many.

In the UK a tragic mass shooting triggered the majority to ban hand gun ownership outright. In the US each such event generates huge polemics but nothing ever changes. If the majority want change they could make it, they seem not to want it.

Again, you can’t compare a country like the US to the UK. Completely different system.

The instructor was foolish, paid with his life.

Britain is the 2nd most violent society in the world? You know there is something that doesn’t feel quite right about statement.

Agreed, that sounds ludicrous.

The UK is more violent than Libya, Syria, Iraq, Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua and Sudan?

This was a “brutal” knife attack, is there anything other than a brutal knife attack?

That would be recorded as one incident of violent crime, which it undoubtedly would, just as that same offence would in the US.

But that shows nothing.

There are loads of ‘violent’ crimes in the UK which wouldn’t be recorded as violent in the US. Of the 54,000 sexual offenses recorded as violent crimes in the UK, only a quarter (15,000) were rapes and only these would have been recorded as a violent crime in the US. (Actually, as I understand it, of those 15,000 rapes only the ‘forcible’ ones would have been recorded as violent crimes in the US.)

So, ignoring the “huntin, shootin, fishing” brigade, and the second amendment nutjobs, why do many Americans apparently feel the need to carry a gun about as part of their normal day to day activity?

Instructor instructs poorly, instructor pays price

tragic, but accidents do happen, just like the driving instructor who died when the trainee crashed the car a while ago.

Both of my daughters have fired guns, neither of them have shot anyone – I put that down to supervising and instructing them properly and choosing appropriate weapons and circumstances to do so (rimfire rather than full bore, adjustable stock length etc.)

4 guns in a locked steel cabinet, keys secured in a keysafe that she can’t reach and does not know the code to.

choosing appropriate weapons

Makes sense. How is an Uzi appropriate in this situation (or any other than military)?

why do many Americans apparently feel the need to carry a gun about as part of their normal day to day activity

Ravey Davey told us …

we had a guy from the American MDA come to visit us at work and he constantly mentioned feeling naked without his handgun. He said he puts it on every morning for work as naturally as he puts on his wrist watch

Thing is I wear a watch because I use it…. there’s nothing I (or presumably, you) carry daily that I (we) don’t use …. and hopefully don’t want to use.

Weird.

Thing is I wear a watch because I use it…. there’s nothing I (or presumably, you) carry daily that I (we) don’t use …. and hopefully don’t want to use.

I guess they see it in the same way we see using seatbelt whenever you get in to a car – it’s just ingrained. You don’t benefit from a seatbelt every time you use the car, but I wouldn’t drive without one.

Jon … I can see what you are saying but….

We HAVE to wear belts, there’s no option.

I presume you choose seat belts because they are a “safe guard” and of course that’s true… a belt will save your life/keep you from harm

Can the same be said of a gun ??

And anyway fancy carrying a blooming heavy guns around all day what a PITA

a belt will save your life/keep you from harm

Can the same be said of a gun ??

Part of the problem is that a large portion of the US public would say that’s exactly what a gun can do.

Part of the problem is that a large portion of the US public would say that’s exactly what a gun can do.

But there’s evidence that seatbelts keep you from harm. There’s evidence that carrying a gun increases your chance of harm.

But we’re talking about a nation that rejects the concept of free universal healthcare, so…

^ I think this is my interpretation from that quote. The feeling naked bit is about feeling unsafe and unprotected without a gun.

Part of the problem is that a large portion of the US public would say that’s exactly what a gun can do.

And for me thats part of the weirdness. I can’t imagine living in a society where I think there is a significant possibility that I might have to draw a gun and kill someone as I go about my daily business.

When you listen to the pro gun arguments (particularly the “concealed carry” lot), it makes you think that either the US is an incredibly dangerous place, or there are some very paranoid individuals living there.

The feeling naked bit is about feeling unsafe and unprotected without a gun.

Given the number of nutters running around the place with guns, feeling like you might need to protect yourself is probably understandable 😉

I’m just looking at table ten of this report which lists causes of death, including firearms, in the US.

In 2010, accidental discharge of firearms killed 4 children under 1-year-old, 25 kids between 1- and 4-years-old, and 45 kids between 5 and 15. 92 kids between 5 and 15 committed suicide by shooting themselves. 7 children under 1-year-old, 48 kids between 1- and 4-years-old, and 162 kids between 5 and 15 were murdered by shooting. Plus another 13 kids where the intent of the firearms discharge is unknown.

It’s sobering reading.

We HAVE to wear belts, there’s no option.

You mean if it wasn’t law you wouldn’t wear it?

no … I dont mean that

While one of the Posters’ mentioned that when younger they could get an illegal gun they also said that it would come loaded. Getting further ammunition would be a far greater problem.

While any stats on gun deaths across the world will only be as good as the data, and the less ‘civilised’ the country probably the less accurate the data is, but still:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_deaths

The UK shows 0.25 deaths per 100,000 while the US shows 10.3 . The worse (proper) European country is Switzerland at 3.84 (mainly suicide, which is one of the ‘unseen’ problems of having vast amounts of legal guns).

And even though I shoot, and have since been a child; I’d rather live under our Gun rules than the US’s.

why do many Americans apparently feel the need to carry a gun about as part of their normal day to day activity?

because for them, it’s normal. A bit like it’s normal for British people to see unarmed policemen, only a different normal.

Most Americans do not wander around carrying weapons. Different parts of the US have different laws and different cultural norms. I don’t agree with the whole carrying guns thing, but I do accept that ‘normal’ is different for everyone.
I’ve lived in the US for over a year now. I have a pretty normal life and interact with a fair number of people. Of all I’ve met, 5 admit to owning guns, one commented on how he felt it was normal to carry it and everyone else just has a life without guns.

When you listen to the pro gun arguments (particularly the “concealed carry” lot), it makes you think that either the US is an incredibly dangerous place, or and there are some very paranoid individuals living there.

You only have to look at the survivalists to see that there are, indeed, lots of very paranoid individuals over there.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/27/omaha-police-kill-cops-tv-show-crew
More tragedy.

That’ll teach him to go to a firefight armed with a tickling stick!!