Gravel Biking in the UK: Just like 'Mountain Biking' was 25-30 years ago…

Exactly why my ‘gravel’ / ‘like MTBs used to be (but with drop bars)’ bike IS a Fortitude with drops

Makes perfect sense to me

Bump because I thought this deserved more credit that it received :D

I just like the way his mate on the right of the photo is looking away disgusted at his Enduro wear. I bet he’s thinking ‘If only he’d worn Rapha’.

@macb

Bit short in the Headtube that Fortitude, I know the general Gravel Grinder blurb is sort of up to 700×40 tyres…but why not allow for that bit bigger? The length is already there in the forks and the chainstays.

With disc brakes there are no longer concerns about brake clearance with bigger tyres.

Scroll up on this page and there is your answer, the Giant Revolt. It easily takes 2.15″ tires upfront, 2.0″ at the back. Now that short headtube makes sense too, because you can fit a rigid semi-29er fork (A2C of 430 mm), have plenty of room for wide and big tires without messing up a proper dropbar geometry too much.

To me the Revolt is a stroke of genius (my compliments to that design team) and should have been groundbreaking but sadly we’ve ended up with either beefier roadracers with 32 mm tires (GT Grade/Spec Diverge), beefier CX-racers (Niner RLT) on 40 mm tires or 27.5″ centerpull braking randonneurs on 42 mm tires.

That C’dale Slate does stir things up though, and maybe someday someone will build that dropbar Lauf forked randonneur too!

Tested the Slate and didn’t quite get it. Until I was climbing on a short steep gravel road with loads of grip out of the saddle. Was very comfy on the cobbles too. Rides like a very comfy roadbike. Fits 26″ MTB tyres as well as road tyres on a 28/29″ rim.

Too expensive.

Hydraulic brakes only come on very expensive carbon road bikes and I wanted an affordable alu frame.

Got a 2nd hand hybrid (bmc ac01 105) with hydraulic brakes and converted it to drop bars (ST-RS685/BR-RS785). love it.

Before

After

That sir is a stroke of genius

The gravel bike is a genre that isn’t quite there yet. At the moment it’s a slightly fattened CX bike. It meeds to get fatter.

It has the potential to become the most popular type of bike IMO.

Once you eliminate all the actual and wannabe racers, there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home. A bike for scenery before Strava.

It really is a reversion to the days when bikes were ridden on all surfaces, and the popular wheel sizes were 28″ with wide rims and tyres up to 2″.

To my mind the ideal bike looks like one of these.

(Frank White about 1900. Second round Australia ride.)

Early 29ers with steep HAs (for an mtb) are ideal for conversion. If you have on old Scandal frame hanging in your shed, then you have close to the ideal bike. (Ideal being a TD-1 :) )

With low pressure supple 2.35″ tyres on a bike used for this sort of riding, you don’t really need tread. A slick will do, and that makes the road transits quieter. I like Schwalbe Big Apples for my rides.

@epicyclo
Something a little like this?

Or this?

isn’t it just a skinny wheeled 29r HT? Unless of course you want the drop bars on it?

It has the potential to become the most popular type of bike IMO.

Once you eliminate all the actual and wannabe racers, there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home. A bike for scenery before Strava.

An interesting perspective, most I know who do that are on beat up old CX type bikes single speed with beards. They don’t tend to be the ones who drop the cash on new bikes ;)

busta – Member

@epicyclo
Something a little like this?

I’ve been building gravel bikes all my life – I’m not so much a mountain biker as a mountain wanderer. :)

I was going to post a few pics of my more recent versions, but realised there’s far too many.

Basically you can’t go wrong if you get a fat enough compliant tyre to be able to run a low pressure, and then find a frame that will a) fit it, b) has close to CX bike geometry, and c) clearance for your knackers.

It could well be that 650B will prove to be the answer because a 2.35″ tyre on that is about the same as a 700c with a 40mm tyre.

mikewsmith – Member
…An interesting perspective, most I know who do that are on beat up old CX type bikes single speed with beards. They don’t tend to be the ones who drop the cash on new bikes

Beards and singlespeeds? Sounds familiar. :)

Then they’ll be the guys snapping up all the unfashionable old school 29er frames for peanuts and building their own mix of a gravel bike. It can be done quite cheaply and you can produce a quality ride.

I’ve got a recipe you can have. :)

Nowhere near my thing epicyclo but more just that it’s hard to become the biggest/most popular sector in the bike world if you don’t ever buy many bikes ;)

mikewsmith – Member
Nowhere near my thing epicyclo but more just that it’s hard to become the biggest/most popular sector in the bike world if you don’t ever buy many bikes

I think it’ll be like fatbikes. The industry comes aboard after years of various people kludging their own versions together, and suddenly they’ll be everywhere.

Then the industry will invent a new wheel size and modern trail geometry (again).

Once you eliminate all the actual and wannabe racers, there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home. A bike for scenery before Strava.

That’s what I do. In fact I’ll be doing it today (and tomorrow). It’s why I increasingly think of my bike (just what I had lying around, bolted together) as an ATB rather than an MTB. When the frame breaks it’s all obsolete – 26″, straight steerer, etc. At which point I’ll be looking at these bikes very carefully.

This is my hybrid flat bar gravel adventure ATB. Apart from the wheel diameter and brakes, it’s probably quite comparable with a 20 year old mtb.

I also have a beard and a few singlespeeds.

BTW the easy way to get dropbars on your MTB is to Use the Satori Bullbar*, aka Smooth Drop.

There is a version that has the same diameter as an mtb bar so you can use your levers etc and don’t need to go to road levers. Then if you want to do gnarly mtb stuff, you can simply switch bars, about a 3-5 minute job.

Ditto if you want to go promenading, simply switch the bar upright. :)

It’s not a deep drop, but that is unnecessary on a gravel bike anyway.

*Also branded as One23 Minotaur or Bull bar.

(With the changes in name it would be worth checking that they still take mtb size levers – seeing as this is not mentioned in the ads)

Example:

^ Like it.

I’ve posted this pic before, a similar set up that was a bit of a revelation when riding it during a road tour and a few rides in the UK before that. Works so well to cover any ground apart from wet, techy off-road but a swap of tyres sorts that. Rigid 29er, Big Apples, H-bar with MTB controls. The Fortitude came from a similar sort of use/idea.

Has repack rider posted yet?

More thoughts:

In many ways the so called gravel bike is a reversion to the British offroad riding tradition, formalised by the formation of the RSF in 1955.

The mistake that organisation made was to eschew technical discussions whereas it could have advanced the technology at a time when Britain had a thriving bike manufacturing tradition – all it needed was a push from an group of enthusiasts like the RSF.

Some UK manufacturers sold bikes built specially for offroad conditions to the colonies in the 1930s – 1950s. Lighter versions would have been perfect for offroad riding here and probably would have sold well. I’ve managed to find most of the components to build a replica of a colonial special, so that may get built this year so I can compare it. (The Raleigh Bomber used the same frame style).

Here’s one destined for USA & Canada but also sold worldwide (1938):

BTW the easy way to get dropbars on your MTB is to Use the Satori Bullbar*, aka Smooth Drop.

I’m interested in that – but it still has only one hand position (at least, with access to brakes). For me one of the main advantages to road drops is that you can ride around on hoods or drops.

I’m planning a switchable bar system on my Salsa, but it’ll involve a complete swap of brakes, shifters, cables, bars and all, because that’s the only way to do it quickly.

That Genesis is a Fargo in disguise……

molgrips – Member
I’m interested in that – but it still has only one hand position (at least, with access to brakes). For me one of the main advantages to road drops is that you can ride around on hoods or drops.

I don’t find it a great disadvantage, but it would be nice to have the option. However it is a shallow drop, so you may find less need to vary the position.

I would buy a bar that offered the option though – so long as I can use mtb levers which I regard as superior to road levers. I never tape my tops, so mtb levers work well for me.

epicyclo – Member

Once you eliminate all the actual and wannabe racers, there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home. A bike for scenery before Strava.

Absolutely.
About time too.

In the 70’s, there was a much greater emphasis on function over image.

Most of Ballantine’s bible extoles the versatility of the high quality touring/all round bike.
In fact, most of my old cycling books seem to give equal prominence to general leisure riding and the racing side.

Even into the 80’s, many manufacturers seemed to offer loads of versatile bikes.
I had a gas pipe British Eagle ‘tourer’ – big tyre clearances.
Wide drops on a quill stem, quick and easy to adjust.
Rack for camping in the Lakes or strip it and stick knobblies on for playing around in the woods.

I’m glad they’re back.

Great thread, btw.

there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home.

Any XC orientated middle of the range 29er aluminium hardtail would be perfect for that e.g. Trek Superfly.

epicyclo – Member
Once you eliminate all the actual and wannabe racers, there’s a large pool of people who want a bike that gets them “out there”, a bike you can ride miles to the trail, follow it across a mountain, come out the other side, and then ride home. A bike for scenery before Strava.

My version with mudguards.

GT Grade for the commute and tracks, just a bit slower over the rough stuff than an MTB.

Calibre Dune for mud plugging and grinning :D

This is one of my local gravel routes, it’s a mix of b roads, gravel tracks and Sustrans paths, i live in a pretty flat area so no big climbs to speak of. I have ridden this route on MTB’s in the past but it seems less boring on the Vaya.

Strava

Anyone else like to share a route?