As this thread is highlighting, there are regional variations in what we think of as “light off road”. It’s probably true to say that the Slate is built for a type of terrain we have little of in the UK.

I think the main point of modern marketing has more to do with the availability & “normality” of suspension forks, anyone who didn’t grow up in the 90’s think they are the norm & they ride to suit, those of us who have progressed from rigid to suss forks just see gravel bikes as the crap we were riding 25 years ago, or embrace them & use skinny by modern standards 29er tyres 😉

[url=https://flic.kr/p/zjmBHN]IMG_1058[/url] by Martin Robbo, on Flickr

Or this that I was riding about ten years ago

[url=https://flic.kr/p/oLWXKv]DSC00073[/url] by Martin Robbo, on Flickr

I can’t say I remember wide Mavic rims? Wide chrome ones that weighed a ton with pimpled braking surfaces, then everything seemed to go ARAYA or RIGIDA, Those wide Mavic rims must have been a fortune back in the day.

I remember the XM321 Sup also the 19 and 17 I think?

Everything went narrow in the 90’s as the MTB world adopted skinny wheels as well as the Lycra 🙂
I thought that 25mm rims were quite wide by today’s standard?

Interesting thread. I think a 29″ F/s Xc bike with lockout is much better than a gravel bike as an all rounde thoughr. Far less fatiguing off road and almost as fast on.

quotecrosshair – Member
Interesting thread. I think a 29″ F/s Xc bike with lockout is much better than a gravel bike as an all round though. Far less fatiguing off road and almost as fast on.

Without trying to sound demeaning my point was that everything was ridden without suspension a while back, you learnt to ride without it, no excuses, just ride what you could & curse what you couldn’t.

Quite! So now you can get good VFM f/s bikes with lockout- I don’t know why you’d bother with a gravel bike or even a CX bike for any rough stuff really. By erring on the side of too much off-road capability, you cover far more bases than erring on too little.

Ironically, after using a Scott Spark for almost all of my riding for three years- I’ve just bought a CX bike…..to use as a road bike 😀

I’ve done Ludgershall –> Warminster –> Ludgershall across Salisbury Plain (a proper gravel bike ride if ever there was one) at 15mph before on my Spark XC bike so I will test my CX this year and see if it’s any quicker- it certainly won’t be as comfy.

I ride my CX/gravel/gnarmac* round the crap local trails I used to ride my late 80/early 90s first MTBs around, so yeah I get the op, but on my MTB I ride much better local stuff unsuited to CX, yeah I’ve nursed my CX down some of them but it’s not a heap of fun.

I like the frame, bars, brakes etc, the limiting factor for me is tyres, at 32c I either have to pump em so hard I have no grip (or blow off the rim tubeless) or I puncture (or pinch/tear tubeless). I could use bigger tyres but then I’d be riding a 29er with wonky bars (I already have a proper 29er) and it wouldn’t be a lightening quick CX bike anymore.

Get me some tyres that I don’t flat at ~37psi, fit under my ‘guards (its also my commuter bike) and are fairly light and I’d ride my CX down more stuff (would be perfect for big rides interspersed with a few rocky descents like Mary Townley)

*bloody hell everyone from purists to gravel riders (who don’t do gravel races) moaning about the CX tag.

We need a show me your gravel, gnarmac, CX thread, for inspiration purposes,

I still think these ‘gravel’ bikes are basically crossers with a compact chainset, sold to roadies who think their bike wont cope with a quick lap round Grafham Water in the middle of summer. On the plus side, some of the said roadies might find being strictly tarmac-bound is as mind numbing as it actually is….

^^ we’ve had loads of threads with pics, I’m not too sure you’d want to see my CXer again though… 😆

“D0NK – Member
I ride my CX/gravel/gnarmac* round the crap local trails I used to ride my late 80/early 90s first MTBs around, so yeah I get the op, but on my MTB I ride much better local stuff unsuited to CX, yeah I’ve nursed my CX down some of them but it’s not a heap of fun.”

same.

^^^^^^but I’ve never ridden an office chair off road

I still think these ‘gravel’ bikes are basically crossers with a compact chainset, sold to roadies who think their bike wont cope with a quick lap round Grafham Water in the middle of summer.

Well they are closer to road bikes than MTBs. Wider tyres make a difference but for a lot of the ‘gravel’ riding I do in the New Forest my track bike with 28c squeezed in was fine (as a road bike would have been). You don’t get a lot of cornering grip with a 28c but then I never found I got that much with a 38c on a previous cross bike bike either and avoided rough trails (or slowed down a bit) on both.

My MTB with high volume 2.3″ tyres and flat bars is however nothing like a road/gravel/track bike and nothing stops me (and that is with a rigid fork)

It’s interesting reading STW threads at the moment (OK not interesting Maybe just telling), there seems to be three main forms of bicycle evangelist knocking about currently:

1- the CX/Gnarmac/gravel lovers
2- the fatbike fanbois
3- the “modernists” those puzzled by anybody who doesn’t throw fistfuls of cash the latest MTB innovations…

All of these are niches that the marketing people are obviously happy to push at the moment, which neither legitimises or negates them but is a simple fact.

There are various other strongly held opinion camps on here too the “why doesn’t anyone like 3×9 bikes anymore?” brigade the “flat pedals are proper” crew and the “camelbaks make more sense than bottles” posse (the opposite position being adopted by another faction typically)…

All variations on the STW tradition of “pick an argument and be a dick about it”… Ultimately though I have to say I prefer the “it’s all bikes, it’s all good” ethos though even if it is a bit more boring and conciliatory…

Nothing much has changed, the guy third from the left is Monsieur Francois Enduro.

Seriously though the frame design looks radical, and are those footpegs on the forks? No freewheel?

They definitely didn’t have freewheels at first, not sure if he has or not though.

It’s interesting reading STW threads at the moment (OK not interesting Maybe just telling), there seems to be three main forms of bicycle evangelist knocking about currently:

1- the CX/Gnarmac/gravel lovers
2- the fatbike fanbois
3- the “modernists” those puzzled by anybody who doesn’t throw fistfuls of cash the latest MTB innovations…

Kind of true. The thing is though – it’s only the first two who keep smugly harping on about how they’ve (re)discovered some kind of pure essence of mountain biking and how life-affirming it is.

I guess I fall into the third camp seeing as I’ve just bought a new Capra and love it, but it’s not quite the same. If I had infinite money and garage space I’d have every sub-genre of bike, I wouldn’t just pick one and then claim that all the others are rubbish.

I think most of the people who evangelise about fat bikes and CX/’Gnarmac’ (*shudder*) are people who’ve realised they are never going to be any good/fast at enduro type riding or have crap local trails so are trying to make out everyone else has ‘lost the true spirit of mountain biking’. 😉

MTBing is diverse. That’s about all there is to it.

Imagine skiers arguing about which is the true form of skiing – XC, Telemark, DH, slalom..? They are recognised different activities.

I like my CX because I don’t enjoy road riding and I’m too unfit to lug my heavy steel MTB any significant distance at the moment!

Grum, On the other hand it might be that those who evangelise have rode / raced Enduro and seen the benefits that crossing disciplines gives a distinct advantage, I’ll give you a for instance as I know folk like the cold hard facts, my calculations may be out of kielter though as I have used STRAVA as a basis for my calculations.

I rode 8 enduros last year, I managed to finish inside the top 25% on all of them, I finished them all and was fortunate enough suffer mechanicals on the transitions, I had no question what so ever about my bike handling skills and can ride anywhere, you can take that however you want, if you think I’m bigging myself up that’s fine I’m just trying to set the scene for you so that you don’t (*Shudder*). Summer months in Whistler and fortnights in the Alps tend to flatten out the UK’s riding, so my local trails are pretty crap, I’m plenty good enough and fast enough for Enduro BUT the one factor that hit me harder than anything during stages was Physical Fitness. And I would consider myself relatively fit having served for many years in the forces as an infantryman on the front line, So this winter I’ve worked on my fitness on a CX bike that I bought in Colotado 6 years ago, so it’s not new. The first time I went out on it in October I got stitch, by the 6 th time I was feeling the benefits. I’ve covered 3 thousand miles in just shy of 6 months. I took my Nomad to the peaks on Sunday and beat every single one of my own PR’s and felt that much fitter than I did at this time last year. There are massive advantages to riding different disciplines for health and physical well being for me, as a lad I rode BMX as most lads do, I competed in Road Racing and track cycling whilst in the forces. Time being the biggest hinderance to my riding over the decades meant I got blinkered and focused mainly on DH, freeride and now enjoying the Enduro thing, now in semi retirement at 42 I’m now enjoying riding different bikes, I went out on my sons BMX the other day :P.

I’m interested in your idea of true Mountain Biking,

grum – Member
I think most of the people who evangelise about CX/’Gnarmac’ (*shudder*) are people who’ve realised they are never going to be any good/fast at enduro type riding or have crap local trails so are trying to make out everyone else has ‘lost the true spirit of mountain biking’.

Yup, thats me right there.

Are you a mind reader or have you been watching/stalking me?

Yup, thats me right there.

Are you a mind reader or have you been watching/stalking me?

Yes to both.

@xyeti I think you took my post a bit too seriously! I have a CX-ish bike that I ride on the roads sometimes (and a BMX). I’ve nothing against any form of riding bikes at all – I just find all this ‘oh I’ve rediscovered the true nature of mountain biking by bimbling around on a basic bike (that still cost me loads of money)’ stuff a bit silly.

Oh, I did see the wink,,,,,, well I resurrected my CX from the depths of a garage that hadn’t seen light of day for 5 years so after my initial purchase which was almost given to me I’m kind of in pocket,

If only I could go back and edit that post 😳

None of this nicheist, sub genre nonsense means anything.

Ignore the marketing, ignore what anyone else says or thinks.

You can pretty much have whatever type of bike you want – the lines between hybrid/tourer/CX/commuter/whatever aren’t really relevant anymore.

Flat bars or drops, luggage or not, CX race to expedition bike, you can increasingly buy a bike to suit your needs.

And the option of big tyres brings little penalty.
A Genesis Vagabond frame weighs the same as a CdF, has similar toe overlap on smaller sizes even when fitted with 2inch tyres.
Or 23’s if you want them.

They could have saved a lot of fuss if they had just kept calling them ATBs.
🙂

Yep – those Frenchies had the right idea.

I can really imagine the meeting at a big brand HQ

Market research guy

“We think that there is space in the market for a road bike with bigger tyres to make it more versatile and allow for more off road use”

Engineer

“Right so we need to make hybrids with drop handle bars”

Marketing

“Yes that’s exactly what we need. But you are never use that term again, ever. I’ll invent a new type of biking and give this new type of bike a sexy name”

So really then I could take the spare On-One Inbred 29er frame I have. Put some drop bars on it, thinner tyres and essentially I have a gravel bike / CX bike what won’t be much slower. Looking at the Giant Revolt from another thread, it looks like a 29er with drops and thinner tyres on. Even the review pretty much said as much.

^^^^^

Give him credit – he knows his audience.

Yes, it’s a drop bar hybrid. Of course, one of the defining features of a hybrid is flat bars, so not unreasonable to give it a different name?

Yep – those Frenchies had the right idea

Je ne suis pas un ?mountain biker?, je suis un VTTiste!

So really then I could take the spare On-One Inbred 29er frame I have. Put some drop bars on it, thinner tyres and essentially I have a gravel bike / CX bike

If the angles, reach etc all work then, essentially, yes.

Yes, it’s a drop bar hybrid

Is having this argument with my 14yo son the other week. He was insistent he wanted a drop bar bike when even when it was clear bra get more bike for his money buying a hybrid. Fortunately, a friend’s drop-bar hybrid conversion came to the rescue…!

5thElefant – Member

Mountain bikes were just a passing fad

Nice pic, third bike along – is that an Ibis ?

Fortunately, a friend’s drop-bar hybrid conversion came to the rescue…!

I’m in the process of converting my cheap hybrid to drop bars – a second time. First time I didnt’ want to shell out for mini-V brakes so had some cheap cantis, which was stupid really. Planet X had the mini Vs for £15 for four recently, so I got those and some light 32c tyres.

I’ll finish it when I can find the LH Sora shifter I know I have somewhere. However riding position so far is absolutely fantastic, looks like it’s going to work a treat with a ‘relaxed’ position I never knew could be so good.

Yes, it’s a drop bar hybrid. Of course, one of the defining features of a hybrid is flat bars, so not unreasonable to give it a different name?

Lets not pretend for a moment that I’m feel strongly about this

But in my mind a genesis Croix de fer and the like are a drop bar hybrids

We have the term flat bar road bike and flat bar tourer

Certainly “drop bar hybrid” is a description that more people will recognise than “gravel bike” or “adventure bike”

But I’m mainly chuckling becuause its a dirty word on here for many people. “Like my new rigid 29er with thin tyres” 😉

apart from a shorter ETT to accommodate drop bars a gravel grinder could be described as a rigid specific 29er.

apart from a shorter ETT to accommodate drop bars a gravel grinder could be described as a rigid specific 29er.

I don’t think most gravel bikes can take tyres much above 40mm… unless I’ve misunderstood the niche?

THIS is a rigid specific 29er (albeit with flat bars): http://www.questadventure.co.uk/genesisfortitudeadventure

And to think people say this forum is populated by nerds!

Bit short in the Headtube that Fortitude, I know the general Gravel Grinder blurb is sort of up to 700×40 tyres…but why not allow for that bit bigger? The length is already there in the forks and the chainstays.

With disc brakes there are no longer concerns about brake clearance with bigger tyres.

I know the general Gravel Grinder blurb is sort of up to 700×40 tyres…but why not allow for that bit bigger?

Exactly why my ‘gravel’ / ‘like MTBs used to be (but with drop bars)’ bike IS a Fortitude with drops.