'Gravel' bikes vs hybrids…

Has anyone mentioned that a gravel bike with flat bars would be very similar to early mountain bikes?

Yes, but not in this thread. I call mine an ‘ATB’ because it’s very reminscent of my first ATB. Steel frame. Rigid forks. Burly (but not hellaheavy), reliable, simple Deore groupset. Fixing points for racks and guards. Only now it has drops and bigger wheels.

And I still do miles of backroads, firetrails and farm tracks. Except faster and with more comfort/versatility. Which is why I chose it. Mileages vary in the flat VS drops choice – but lots of miles for me are better on drop bars.

No gears I understand but I’m guessing you have brakes?

Nope, don’t need them as ride fixed gear. That is why I can swap bars as quickly as it takes to undo 4 allen bolts and do them back up again – a couple of minutes.
Quite nice to just change bars on a whim and currently favouring some 680mm risers as just makes the riding more fun than drops but does make my bike pretty close to the early MTBs I rode in the late 80s as others have pointed out.

Nope, don’t need them as ride fixed gear.

OMG think of the pedestrians

Gravel bike = bike

I’ve recently found that I much prefer quick-ish rolling 32mm road tyres @75psi on my road bike and cross bike than either 23mm or 25mm road tyres at their higher pressures for metalled (and un-metalled) roads, even/especially on long rides.

Current rigid bike is along the same lines but about a million times better than my 94 rigid P7.

Big wheels
Wide rims
2.35 tubeless tyres with 20psi
Discs
Better geometry

Just took it out for a 2hr ‘gravel’ ride which was about 1/4 farm tracks and 3/4 road, and whilst the farm tracks were a mess I enjoyed the road immensely. Racing Ralphs really are astonishingly quick for such big knobblies.

Gravel bike = bike

Well, it’s a sub-set of bikes, isn’t it? Like an Enduro bike is also a bike, or a time trial bike. Clue is in the name, ‘bike’ preceded by an adjective.

I traded in my 29er hardtail for a NS Rag+ nothing to do with fashion or fads. It just suits my riding more. I’ve not run in to anything I can’t ride yet. Yes, it’s a compromise in some areas, but better all round. I actually quite like the drops for off road too.

nothing to do with fashion or fads. It just suits my riding more.

Exactly. The gravel bike suits a need for a lot of people. I could ride a mountain bike around where I live (and used to) but a gravel type bike is actually faster and better suited as my riding is pretty much all fire rods and roads with 2% singletrack.

I reckon a lot people get gravel bikes for the same reason as me – getting old and my body is knackered so MTB doesn’t hold the same appeal any more. I still enjoy a short blast on it but couldn’t cope with over 3hrs.
The gravel bike lets you get out for longer rides, get across the road sections much faster and when you get onto loose and rocky , albeit easy, trails it feels like a right laugh and disproportionately scary, even though your average HT would fly across any minor difficulties. It’s also easier to just go for a ride without having to think about the route.

I bought a Camino AL to replace a Spesh Tricross. Feel like very different bikes due to flared drops, wider tyres, hydro brakes, burlier frame etc. I can see the difference in two “similar” drop bar hybrids.

Recognition of the gravel bike niche has freed up Cross/CX to once again be about skinnier tyred racing designs. I’d warrant that most folk asking about and buying CX bikes for the past 10 years or so were after a gravel bike all along.

Now, where does Adventure Bike sit in the continuum?

Out of interest how many people with drop bars spend most of their time on the drops rather than on the hoods?

I tend to spend all my pedalling time on the drops only moving to the hoods for descending since I feel the upright position gives me a bit more control.

I’m struggling to understand how flat bars for gravel type riding can be more comfortable.

I tend to spend all my pedalling time on the drops only moving to the hoods for descending since I feel the upright position gives me a bit more control.

Opposite here. I much prefer being in the drops on descents. That’s with Salsa Woodchippers though where the flare assists.

If you’re struggling to see why some folk prefer flat bars then you just need to accept we’re all a bit different and that “gravel” riding encompasses a lot of variation.

What does the gravel bike give us that we weren’t getting before? Let’s look at its cousins.

CX bike – almost there, but tyre widths limited and they’re built for very short events, so not optimised for long rides. Can’t take luggage.

Hybrids – again almost there, but geometry is for flat bars which generally entails a longer TT than comfortable with drops. Also usually not much room for a fatter tyre. Have the advantage of generally having longer headtubes which allows a higher positioning of the bars without a ridiculous amount of spacers.
As Molgrips mentioned earlier when we were discussing dropbars, there’s a big advantage in having a bar that gives you a variety of positions as opposed to a mtb style bar – especially on a bike that has multiple uses.

29ers – big advantage is tyres can go to 2.35″ no problem, and quite a few of us have converted 29ers to gravel bikes. However later models tend to have suspension corrected geometry so are getting too slack. There is also the long TT issue, so it is best done with an older model 29er which also benefits from a steeper HA.

Road bikes – tyres way too skinny, bars way too low.

Then there’s the bikes designed to be ridden long distances, eg audax and touring bikes. They come in too many configurations to be particular, but tyre size for the audax bikes tends to be too narrow for extended offroad, and the tourers generally are not nimble and are heavily built for loads.

Of course all the above can be ridden quite successfully off the road, but there’s no substitute for the comfort and security of wider tyres and that’s where the gravel bike scores over its road biased cousins.

However it is my belief the tyres need to go out to at least 2″. With 2 – 2.35″ a tyre can be run at a much lower pressure which gives grip for which you need more aggressive tread on a narrower tyre. That’s probably a few generations on though.

I see the gravel bike as a bike you can ride to the mountains, ride in the mountains, ride across the mountains, as opposed to a mtb which is optimised for doing heroic athletic stuff in the mountains.

The perfect Rough Stuff bike in other words. Finally. 🙂

However it is my belief the tyres need to go out to at least 2″.

Not for me. I prefer a tyre around 35c for the compromise between narrow road tyres and big off road tyre. I squeezed some 50c tyres on to try them and I felt it moved the bike more to an MTB feel and lost a bit of the liveliness.

But it definitely does get talked about as some new exciting thing when it’s almost exactly what I used to do in the 90s, back when we had no idea how to mountain bike so we just pelted up and down dirt roads.

Don’t forget muddy horse worn bridleways around the edge of fields! Those were the days… Actually no, you can keep your gravelling and I shall attempt to go full enduuuuuuurrrrooooo!!!

The perfect Rough Stuff bike in other words. Finally.

Absolutely, and I think the perfect alround bike as well.

I prefer a tyre around 35c for the compromise between narrow road tyres and big off road tyre.

For me that compromise leans to far to the road side. I have been pleasantly surprised how well tyres like WTB Nano’s roll on the road. Well enough to keep up with middle group chain gangs.

However it is my belief the tyres need to go out to at least 2″

I think, Epicyclo, we must be on the same wavelength here. I use a second, 650b wheel set, if my ride is all or very nearly all off road, especially when the route is going to be more technical. At this point I have to admit I’m on the cusp of what is essentially mtb riding and a 29er hardtail (or lightweight full bounce) would be more appropriate.

Because of the versatility of my rough stuff bike I no longer use a mtb hardtail in all but the winter when I will revert to using a single speed bike which are the only hardtails I own now.

If you’re struggling to see why some folk prefer flat bars then you just need to accept we’re all a bit different and that “gravel” riding encompasses a lot of variation.

It heavily depends on where in the country you are riding, this is the key that seems to be missed in these arguments. Where I live in South Wales it’s steep sandstone hills. Sandstone breaks up into large rectangular stones with less mud to hold it all in place, so you get loose rocky trails. So if I head out on the many tracks on top of the mountains even they are rocky. The old green lanes that link them up tend to be strewn with loose rocks. I don’t think it’s possible to make a decent ‘gravel’ aka mixed long ride without it getting pretty rocky. So for me, epicyclo’s comments on tyres are bang on. And I’ve found that you can get pretty fast 2.0s, so I’m struggling to imagine going smaller. But then again I am no 60kg whippet.

But where I currently am in Wiltshire, maybe 40c would be okay – I’ve not tried it. If/when I buy a gravel bike I will probably get one that can take wider tyres; it may even be a ‘monstercross’ bike. Genesis Vagabond appeals.

However later models tend to have suspension corrected geometry so are getting too slack. There is also the long TT issue, so it is best done with an older model 29er which also benefits from a steeper HA.

That’s specifically what I looked for when I was buying a 29er. Sadly though Salsa stopped making the El Mariachi so it’s going to be tricky to replace if that is ever needed.

Another niche for ‘gravel’ bikes though is the British country lane. Steep, potholed, grass down the middle and covered in mud – 32c and higher bars is perfect here and you can also take in a bit of fire-road if you’ve got one handy.

My current collection goes: Road bike > Gravel Bike > Hardtail > Full Suspension.

Too rough for the Road bike and too smooth for the Hardtaill then out comes the Gravel bike.

See I did similar with my stoater if I was doing Road I stuck on 32mm, mixture 35mm offroad out came the 42mm but it was just a bike the same bike just with different tyres. If I fit, which I almost did before I got rid flat bars then it would still have been the same bike.

But I’d have called it a hybrid 🙂

I always saw a hybrid as a road bike with flat bars and lower gears, not a mountain bike with drop bars and higher gears. Both kind of similar but coming from different ends.

We should get the 3peakscx organiser on here he loves an argument about bikes and what they are 🙂

What?
GRAVELAX is evolving!
Congratulations! Your GRAVELAX evolved into GRAVELPOON!

Gnar-brid

Don’t forget a gravel bike is the perfect n+1 as if you need to justify it, it’s not a MTB, it’s not a true road bike, it’s not a traditional tourer etc.

I think for many people it’s the only bike they’ll ever need (if they like drops – flared or non-flared)

kerley – Member
‘However it is my belief the tyres need to go out to at least 2″.’
Not for me. I prefer a tyre around 35c for the compromise between narrow road tyres and big off road tyre. I squeezed some 50c tyres on to try them and I felt it moved the bike more to an MTB feel and lost a bit of the liveliness

.

Maybe I should have said we need to have clearance for at least 2″ tyres.

I agree there’s times the 35mm tyre feels better, but as seasons change or bad weather happens, it’s good to have the option of more tyre.

You can always go skinnier for a personal preference, but if there’s no room you can’t go fatter.

Also if there’s lots of clearance and you’re running 35mms in mud, there’s less chance of getting clagged up and brought to a stop so everyone is happy that way. 🙂

My perfect gravel bike would be similar to what jobro mentions but able to take 650b+ for more mountainbike like duties. That would then give me one bike for all year round except for bog and snow work.

What Molgrips was saying there about the grassy lanes – that’s exactly how my Pompino is set up these days.

It’s basically how a 1950s light roadster was set up. North Road bars that could be up for general duty, and reversed for a more sporty blast around the roads.

It also gets a bit of use on gravel roads – including yesterday on this years SSEC course. (Not good on wet slithery singletrack. 🙂 )

I reckon that fatter tyres (2.0s) on road are much less of a compromise than skinner ones (32c) off it.

I had a nice road ride on 2.35s last night, might’ve been a minute or two slower but it didn’t detract from anything, I didn’t notice.

Having to mince along a rough track on 32c really buggered up a previous ride though.

Agreed

My tyres are getting bigger too, seems to make sense to me!

HybRAD!

😆

molgrips – Member
It has? Most of the fuss seems to be people on here whinging about the fact it’s nothing new.
Personally, I’m happy to see a wider range of bikes in shops. More better choice than previously.

Yes, aren’t we all?

We don’t have to be happy about the way they are being marketed.

I still haven’t seen an example of this egregious marketing. Anyone?

Tell me what egregious means andI’ll have a look!

Out of interest how many people with drop bars spend most of their time on the drops rather than on the hoods?

I’m the opposite.

I tend to spend all my pedalling time on the drops only moving to the hoods for descending since I feel the upright position gives me a bit more control.

I spend most of all of the time on the hoods and flat-section. I tried descending on the drops and it didn’t end well. I reserve getting into drops for sprints, long power-surges, tricky descents and some climbs. Or if I feel like a change. Otherwise hoods and flat-section.

Drops if I’m going fast on the road or my hands are aching, otherwise I’m on the hoods most of the time. Drops off road feel awkward, maybe with flared bars it works.

*erratum:

I tried descending on the drops hoods and it didn’t end well

I have my all-roader set up so that I’m in the drops most of the time now – hoods for climbs or cruising. It’s still the wrong way to be off-road (ie wrong to need to be in be in such a low forward position for better braking and grip, rather than higher/further back) but these bikes are pretty hopeless / ‘exciting’ on anything steep or tricky anyway. Riding fast, swoopy flowy stuff in the drops on a quick-handling bike is so good though ..

I reckon that fatter tyres (2.0s) on road are much less of a compromise than skinner ones (32c) off it.

Again, all depends where you ride. I was fairly happy running 23c in summer although the singletrack rougher sections were a challenge.

As for marketing, agree that more bikes available the better. I started riding fixed gear before the boom and there is far more choice around now than there ever was in 2000 so all for fashion and marketing.

I climb better on the drops, I can really feel the difference.

Hoods and ramps for everything else on road, rarely use the tops.
Off road it’s drops and hang on.

Shallow drops are fantastic, use the drops far more since they became more widely available.

Out of interest how many people with drop bars spend most of their time on the drops rather than on the hoods?

I spend most of my time in the drops. They are flared though, salsa cowchippers at an angle that would make a roadie cry. Use the hoods or flats if I’m just pootling along.

Hoods for climbing and the flat, tops for resting or a change of position just started descending in the drops for better brake control.

I am converting a tourer to gravel took off the guards and I can get 50mm in easily but its a heavy beast at 12kg.

I’ve been testing a flat bar set up on my Grade with flat/spd combo pedals. I ride it loads more now.

I don’t think I like drops. I’m not bothered about speed – I’m a confirmed bimbler,

The Grade is now very reminicent of my Muddy Fox courier from back in the day. Not that I ever rode that on mountains but it did get plenty of forest track (gravel) action.

Full circle for me then!