Seems to me then that there is a fixation with a notion that Scotland is seperate from the rest of the island.
I can’t see that from space, but hey ho.

Are you suggesting that countries need to be physically seperated (sic) to exist? How amusing. Although I suppose the Forth and Clyde plus Union canals do that job – might need a gigantic one of these to replace the Falkirk wheel though.

aracer – that is a part of the reason tho – one of the threads running thru the independence debate is a desire to have representation and influence in the EU away from the corrosive effect of the eurosceptics and where Scottish interests can be represented,

Same as scottish political consensus is more left wing than in England it is also more pro european and outward looking

If Scotland gets independence then the English and Welsh will be stuck with the Conservatives for ever more.

I’m happy for Scotland to get independence as long as it’s as part of the People’s Republic of Scotland and South Yorkshire.

Anyone hear Devo on R4 this morning singing “Are we no Scots – we are Devo Max!” 😀

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrT0M_XGZE[/video]

dyl – Member
If Scotland gets independence then the English and Welsh will be stuck with the Conservatives for ever more.

Abandoning the English: We’d abandon the English to decades of Tory rule.

The Stewart Lee argument, the rightful role of Scotland is to act as an airbag to help protect non-Tory voters in England from the car crash of the Conservatives. For Scotland it’s a bit like being asked to be a fireman who’s constantly called upon to put out the flames in an arsonist’s house. Even if every single Scot voted Labour, we still couldn’t prevent people in Buckinghamshire from playing with matches. We tried that all the way through the 80s, and a fat lot of good it did anyone then, it was arson a go-go with Maggie Thatcher.

Under the FPTP system beloved by Westminster, Labour, the supposed alternative which is meant to protect us against the Tories, finds that the only way it can get elected is to offer Daily Mail readers free matches and a bonus can of petrol. After 17 years of Thatcher and Major, we got Tony Blair with his American zippo lighter that left Iraq in flames. Tories whatever way you look at it.

However Scotland votes, the electorate in England will still have their Tory car-crashes and a pyromaniac Labour party. Scotland’s chances of getting the government we want get exploded like an airbag across Stewart Lee’s mug. The best way for Scots to help our anti-Tory English friends is to offer them a concrete example of social-democratic government in action. We can only do that with independence.

dyl – Member
If Scotland gets independence buggers off to it’s own nationalist utopia then the English and Welsh will be stuck with the Conservatives for ever more. get a government that more accurately reflects their voters preference

😀

Unfortunately “be stuck with the Conservatives for ever more” and “get a government that more accurately reflects their voters preference” would seem to be approximately equivalent.

I should know better than to join in a discussion about politics. Asking for trouble, innit…

Of course a real Scot would have spelt it P-O-R-A-G-E 🙂

^ Milk Snatcher.

I’m Scottish and have lived in England for the last 25 years. I’ve never met an English person that gave a sh!t whether Scotland was part of the union or not. A much more interesting vote would be to get the English to vote whether the Scots should stay in the Union. I think the Scots might get a surprise.

For all the English worried they’d be saddled with Tory governments for ever if Scotland left the Union don’t worry. There’s never been a majority Labour Government that’s depended on the Scottish vote for its majority.

uponthedowns – Member
…A much more interesting vote would be to get the English to vote whether the Scots should stay in the Union. I think the Scots might get a surprise….

I don’t think so.

What other countries think of our desire for self-determination is irrelevant.

It’s interesting reading this debate but my feelings are that those with pro independence thoughts, especially those still living in Scotland often make the classic mistake of referring to England but actually meaning London and the commutable belt around it. It’s a historically reoccurring theme for those that live outside of a capital city to feel alienated for political, social, cultural and financial reasons. Capital cities are different – big business and finance naturally migrate there and there is also a population immigration and emigration within the nation of those that want to chase power and wealth into capital cities and those that don’t away from capital cities.

In this way I’m convinced those living in most of the rest of the UK (away from the home counties) feel the same way towards London as a lot of Scots do; it’s just that living within England they are able to disassociate London from England in general where often the Scots in general are too socially lazy or unaware to bother.

But here’s the rub – this is not a British problem or even a modern problem – distrust and social divorce from a capital city is a phenomena the world over and has been for all of history. And to TJ and his ilk living in Edinburgh… the uncomfortable fact is that the outlying areas of Scotland feel just about as disenfranchised with Edinburgh already for exactly the same reasons as they do with London. Cultural, historical and financial diversity within Scotland is almost as large as it is within the UK at large. IF Scottish independence goes ahead I guarantee that within my lifetime the disparity between Scotland’s capital city the rest of country will have increased with the “common enemy” the English vanquished and exactly the same levels of dissatisfaction will have emerged within the new smaller nation. This is way it has always been the world over and will ever be so.

Declaration – born in the Highlands, parents have now returned to he Highlands – lived in England most of my life – think of myself as British first and would have had to think long and hard if I was to represent Scotland or England at the Commonwealth games if I’d been a little better at my chosen sport.

The porage poster is an epic fail! Have you ever tried Oats so Simple? You would need 5-6 sachets to make a dish that size. Maybe that’s why there are two boxes on show?

For all the English worried they’d be saddled with Tory governments for ever if Scotland left the Union don’t worry. There’s never been a majority Labour Government that’s depended on the Scottish vote for its majority.

Er, October 1974, total seats 635, seats won by Labour 319, majority 3. Total seats excluding Scotland 564, seats won by Labour excluding Scotland 279, majority excluding Scotland -6.

Well David Dimbleby’s researcher on Question Time got it wrong then. However one election victory for Labour in the last 70 years that depended on the Scottish vote is hardly evidence for Tory domination should Scotland make a UDI.

Epicyclo I just said it would be interesting I’m not daft enough to believe it would ever happen. However I believe that if Scotland did vote for independence there would be zero resistance from most of the English population.

I find it frankly odd that everyone in the union might not get a say in independence for Scotland. Are the positives for Scotland mentioned thus far not negatives for the rest of the union?

I find it frankly odd that everyone in the union might not get a say in independence for Scotland. Are the positives for Scotland mentioned thus far not negatives for the rest of the union

Now if the polls are to be believed the vote could go either way

so – imagine if the good folks of Scotland voted to stay in the union and the rest of the UK voted for them to leave
How embarrassing would that be?

Why would it be embarrassing? Surely it would just mean that the majority of Scots felt they would be better off within the union, whilst the remainder of the union felt it would be better off without Scotland?

😀

Hurrah, lets get more divided, lets go back in time to being ever more tribal, lets try to seperate people rather than bring them together.

You get the politicians that you deserve…

Why would it be embarrassing

well, if the whole of the UK had a vote on it, they’d have to go if the majority wanted it 😀

There wouldn’t need to be a vote to kick Scotland out of the Union . All the English would need to do is vote for their own independence and leave the Union.