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  • Go the 204th tactical aviation brigade
  • wwaswas
    Full Member

    Just reading this on twitter.

    Fair play to them;

    Incredible. Half the Ukraine troops from Belbek base now marching to airstrip occupied by Russians. Unarmed. To take it back.

    Ukraine column has reached Russian checkpoint. Russians begin firing in the air. Ukrainians keep marching

    The red flag the Ukrainians marched with is the banner of the fighter pilots who fought Nazis in 1941 and guarded the Yalta Conference

    on the @shustry account.

    The immediacy (but also brevity) of this type of reporting really grabs my attention, far more than say a rolling news program.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Into the valley of death…

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    Fair play to them, ignoring orders…..eg avoid goading the Russians and starting WW3.

    somouk
    Free Member

    This could be the confrontation the makes or breaks a war.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    The Ukraine commanders just received word that Putin ordered the Russian troops to withdraw. Is that true?

    Russians back down, allow 10 Ukraine soldiers to take up positions at occupied base, but still awaiting orders from Moscow

    looks like immediate bloodshed has been avoided.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    An interesting, but risky, tactic. the Ukraine gov are not going to even attempt to fight the Russians – if the Russians opened fire on unarmed people they would be in a whole world of trouble with the international community.
    Anybody know what China’s stance on the situation is?

    yossarian
    Free Member

    Anybody know what China’s stance on the situation is?

    Watching with a half smile on her face.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Anybody know what China’s stance on the situation is?

    Rubbing their hands with glee, I’d imagine. The more the west tries to isolate Russia economically the more China will try and step in to fill the gap…

    ninfan
    Free Member

    An interesting, but risky, tactic. the Ukraine gov are not going to even attempt to fight the Russians

    Risky? I’d say rolling over and accepting that they were outplayed was by far the least risky tactic – Russia have shown no intent of a general move beyond the Crimean peninsular, and have done it in what seems so far to be a bloodless fashion. They’ve also played an ace by demanding that the Ukraine government return to the internationally brokered deal that was thrown aside when they unconstitutionally overthrew their elected president.

    Anybody know what China’s stance on the situation is?

    Apparently backing Russia in UNSC, likely a bit of realpolitik with a view to their own dispute with Kapan over the Senkaku islands

    khani
    Free Member

    Respect, that took some balls..

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Putin still has the issue of protecting ‘Russians’ in Eastern Ukraine to deal with. The Crimea is a neat package, but anything else is a major problem.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Agreed – however Putin can play the long ball on that one, all it takes is one crackdown on pro-russian protesters in the East by the Ukranian government to give Putin justification

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    From my favourite provocative commentator:

    “MORALITY and foreign policy make uneasy bedfellows. In 1997, when Tony Blair called for an ethical foreign policy, the country cheered; 17 years later, any politician calling for such idealism would be laughed out of town. After 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Georgia, the Arab Spring and so on, a battlehardened realism is the order of the day. Foreign policy is tough and dirty; compromises sadly necessary.

    To understand why the world stands so debilitated in the face of Russian aggression, a little context is necessary. The West is in a fragile state: its mixedeconomy model is under internal attack, its debt levels high, its monetary and financial systems unhealthy and many countries have barely exited a recession which began seven years ago. Belief in capitalism is in decline, populism is on the rise, political and financial elites are discredited and democracies are becoming less liberal, with increased surveillance and ever more burdensome regulations.

    Appetite for wars overseas has waned dramatically post-Iraq. While the terrorist threat has been kept at bay, it hasn’t gone away. The UK is torn between its desire to try and take part – if only symbolically – in conflicts but is unable to protect Gibraltar, one of its outposts, from endless vexations and would stand no hope of rescuing the Falklands if Argentina were to invade again.

    It is not just the West that is tired, economically troubled and intellectually confused. China’s economy has slowed dangerously, its debt bubble is immense, its labour costs have risen, it is facing various forms of internal unrest, including terrorism, and its current economic and political status quo is not tenable. It needs to change and evolve, not least by reforming its currency and making its banking system work better, but that is easier said than done, and the probability that it will all end in revolution, bloodshed and horror is far from negligible. Other emerging countries, such as India, are starting to look healthier – but at some stage China will start to throw its weight around in foreign affairs in a much more aggressive manner.

    Russia is in an even worse place: it faces demographic collapse, its manufacturing output is shrinking again, growth is feeble and its political system horribly authoritarian. It was forced to jack up interest rates by 1.5 percentage points yesterday and spend two per cent of its $493.4bn cash pile defending the rouble, which collapsed to an all-time low. The prospect of war, possible sanctions and extreme uncertainty triggered a stock market crash yesterday. For all of these problems, the rich democracies trade more than ever before with Russia and other unsavoury regimes; this has been a mutually beneficial arrangement and has helped hundreds of millions of people escape abject poverty. In the case of Russia, Europe is hugely dependent on its oil, gas and coal; any suspension of supplies would be catastrophic. London serves as a key finance and service centre for Russia, while the UK’s industrial heartlands also benefit: 9.5 per cent of car exports went to Russia last year.

    Given all of this, what should be done? Military intervention would be madness – but Europe’s defences must be bolstered. We are no longer in a post-Cold War detente; Poland and the Baltic states are terrified. Nato needs to mean Nato again; a forcible statement should be issued making it clear that the old doctrine of mutually assured destruction would be back in the event of attacks on further countries. A new missile defence system and US military support is needed.

    Iranian-style sanctions on Russia would be extremely painful for all concerned. It is unclear who would blink first: the Russians, who would face economic implosion, or Europe, which would be tipped back into a vicious recession. Global banks could go bust if they suddenly couldn’t trade with Russian firms anymore, Russia could default on its debt, the price of grain, energy, oil and commodities would rocket and we would face a new Lehman moment. Germany, whose ties with Russia are even closer than London’s, would never risk it, and voters would not tolerate the pain. Some targeted sanctions on specific individuals may help, but could easily backfire. Longer-term solutions include developing shale gas to be less dependent on Russian imports, and hoping that Putinism doesn’t last forever.

    The simple, horrible truth is that we are stuck. The best outcome is to contain Russia, prevent the pro-Western parts of Ukraine from being swallowed and stop chaos breaking out elsewhere. The Chinese and Iranians are watching carefully. The West may be in crisis, and forced to confront the reality of its unethical foreign policy, but it needs to show that it is not quite finished yet.”

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    From my favourite provocative commentator:

    do they have an actual name?

    slackalice
    Free Member

    Elsewhere in the news today, someone’s dog allegedly smells like baby powder and perfume. 😀

    Happy days 😉

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Interesting view from one of Russia Today’s presenters (from what I can see this like the World Service insofar as it’s state funded but also quasi independent) so that this got on air may be seen as a bit of slip up?

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZolXrjGIBJs[/video]

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    That would be the former Russia Today presenter Abby Martin then?

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    huff post has some more background, not reportign she’s now unemployed;

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/04/russia-today-abby-martin-video_n_4894981.html

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Just a fairly confident prediction, rather than factual reporting.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Journalists seemed fairly casual about the whole situation, too;

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCNwQKhgo7M[/video]

    SaxonRider
    Full Member

    @wwaswas, Woppit’s favourite commentator would be Allister Heath of City A.M.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    ah, him again. I should have guessed it would be someone with unimpeachable intellectual qualities for Woppit to find their views attractive.

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    But you didn’t…

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    no, and I didn’t bother googling the text to find out where it had come from. I couldn’t summon up the enthusiasm for either google or guessing.

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    Yeah, I guessed.

    Go on then, pick some holes and tell us what’s wrong with it.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    putins played a blinder, its quite similar to georgia, except the ukranians havent given him the justification the way sakasvili (sp?) did

    still those ukranians have got balls standing up to those russian special forces troops

    ninfan are you still buying putins ‘concerned citizens of ukraine in uniform’ line?

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