I still think, after all is said and done, that it is bad karma for the FC to kick out E+T.

I have seen these type of developments before, and also been part of ‘changes’ from the other side, and I’ll say this:

If I was E+T, I’d be thinking maybe this is a good way out. I don’t know the ins and outs, but I’m guessing they had to get together some pie-in-the-sky business plan where everything was going to grow 100% a year and they could cover a 500% increase in rent etc etc. This type of thing can easily go tits up, and they could have ended up overstretched or bust.

I understand change, improving things, not getting stale etc etc, but I think that too many times, the soul gets cut out of these type of developments and gets lost. IMHO a proper development plan would have incorporated things rather than discarding them.

Just so long as there is somewhere to hang up all the pressure suits and full facers, it’ll all be fine…

I have a group of clients, whom I lease bikes to incl tcl/mbl instruction.
One week they may want bikes at Aberfoyle, next week Callander, next week Mugdock park, next week Carron Valley.
But one week they wanted Glentress.
So there I was at Glentress emptying bikes from the van at the bottom car park, when emma(the guy woman) comes out ranting and raving accusing me of stealing her business etc etc.

Now if I was selling bacon rolls/bike parts/public bike hire etc, she might have had a point.

It may well be she’s ruffled more than my feathers? No sympathy here.

steffybhoy

there is no need for this

emma(the guy woman)

Bang goes your credibility

snap

Double snap.

O.k

Sorry for the offensive joke, but the rest is correct and true.

There must be more behind it than that. I remember one of them outlining a few incidents of people using her facilities to run classes

That seems familiar… Hang on… <searches> You said much the same in the last thread about this, and Emma responded:

“And as for chasing folk away that do TCL at the venue-rubbish-unless you were the guy that set up in my cafe with your flipchart and marker pens or the guy that started running a how to fix your bike on the decking and put your oily muddy wheels on my tables that folk have to eat off-yes then I probably did chase you away cos you never had the manners to even ask if you could use my cafe as your TCL venue-thats the cafe that I have to pay a rent for-and if you come into the venue and earn a pot of cash out of it and wear out the trails at the same time it would be nice if you put something back because it costs money to maintain those trails that sustain both our businesses. And if anyone is looking for a TCL provider try Brian Salvona-he’s a really nice guy that runs courses at Glentress.”

But you didn’t respond at all then. Want to respond now?

Ah – I just went searching for that as well.

Steffiboy – maybe you were falsely accused but you are the only person that I have heard have a bad word against them on a personal level.

you lads get worse 😆

Absolutely not TJ(taking offence you insinuating must be more 2 it), any facilities used were trails/skills area. Most of the group bought coffee/refreshments from the hub that day, and that’s as close to usuing any of her facilities as it got.

Maybe you got teh backlash for others misdeamanours as posted then

Apologies for any offence

We’ve just got to have some faith in FC

…and there’s your problem, right there.

Lots of folk on here have huge admiration and respect for FC staff at the grass roots level, but we’re also intelligent enough to be able to distinguish between them and the ‘top brass’ who are responsible for debacles like the CV episode (and no, I wasn’t on the CVDG).

And just out of interest, what’s your interest in this (geoffj)? I get the impression that you’re employed by one of the quangos to try and recruit free labour to try and meet some set of government targets somewhere?

TJ, no probs.

There’ll be someone happy somewhere that they’ve created ‘new’ jobs and businesses.

Northwind – Member

That seems familiar… Hang on… <searches> You said much the same in the last thread about this, and Emma responded:

“And as for chasing folk away that do TCL at the venue-rubbish-unless you were the guy that set up in my cafe with your flipchart and marker pens or the guy that started running a how to fix your bike on the decking and put your oily muddy wheels on my tables that folk have to eat off-yes then I probably did chase you away cos you never had the manners to even ask if you could use my cafe as your TCL venue-thats the cafe that I have to pay a rent for-and if you come into the venue and earn a pot of cash out of it and wear out the trails at the same time it would be nice if you put something back because it costs money to maintain those trails that sustain both our businesses. And if anyone is looking for a TCL provider try Brian Salvona-he’s a really nice guy that runs courses at Glentress.”

But you didn’t respond at all then. Want to respond now? Northwind as I said in my previous post THE CLOSEST I got to using her facilities were my clients buying from the HUB.
She’s so far off the mark and she knows it.

That’s cool- you never responded at all last time which can mean various things so I was interested to hear your side.

Mibbee thinking, she was thinking, I was someone else. Still reading that response’chalkboard/blackboard thing, bike repair/maintenance on the decking of the cafe/oil on seats etc? I know some people can be quite farward/take the piss, but I’d take it being gospel with a pinch of salt.

were at the very early stages of trying to get a trail centre up and running in angus(feasibilty study just finished)…all this is very worrying as we’ll be trying to generate funds based on a viable business plan that we can sell to a trail centre operator….and as for the FC,theyve been steadfast since the beginning with offers of no money(as theyve spent it on the peel)

i concur with eveything mark at tbc says,(hes bloody eloquent!)ive ridden at glentress long before they had trails/cafe/parking etc and its a proper day out now due to the facilities….

whatever anyone thinks of E/T and the hub you cant deny they havent put anything into the sport…whenever im their im always impressed that theyre riding with kids usually/doing skills sessions etc…didnt they start the kids mtb club down there? isnt it the biggest in scotland with a waiting list to get in?

im not sure how much development locally the new corporate supplier will apply!

i like tjs idea of direct action but i fear theyres a lot of keyboard warriors here and it may not come to fruition….

cycleworlduk – Member

i like tjs idea of direct action but i fear theyres a lot of keyboard warriors here and it may not come to fruition….

well we will see won’t we. Lots of talk and outrage but will there be any action? Its all gone rather quiet

So from a search, it looks like ‘CV’ means ‘Carron valley’. Can anyone point me to the thread with the background – I can’t seem to find it.

What would you suggest TJ – any ideas for what might be done?

The obvious thing is to demo outside the new cafe and to attempt to divert all the custom to Emma and Tracys old place. Blockade of the new cafe as well. With no supplies and no customers it will not be viable.

Needs people prepared to stand up and be counted and to actually put the time and effort in.

As Emma and Tracy have a while left on their lease then there is actually some point in doing this.

Edit – the other thing to do is put pressure on the people who get the contract for teh new cafe. Let them know that boycotts and blockades will be organised – it might put them off taking up the contract once they realise the depth of feeling.

However – you need a decent sized group od people that are prepared to put the work in. A bit more than internet maoners

Bit harsh on whomever the new folk might be, presumably they’ve won fair and square. Surely all that would need to be done is keep using the Hub whilst they are there. Wonder if the new folks knew the situation with the Hubs lease when they applied. They might not last long if things are very quiet. Then again if it’s raining and the Hub is full will people forget their principles and go to the new place?

maybe unpopular thought, but what if the new Cafe is better than the Hub, like better food, warmer, cleaner, bigger, cheaper.

I’m not saying it will be, but surely the people should be given a chance. Sure, if it’s rubbish then all the above points are fair enough, but if not ?

Blockade of the new cafe as well. With no supplies and no customers it will not be viable.
LOL! What do we want? Egg on Toast! When do we want it? Now!

TJ – can’t your friends in high places (y’know the ones that told you that The Hub weren’t going to bid) tell you who has won?

ninenailspete – see http://www.carronvalley.org.uk/

TJ – i dont think a blockade is in the spirit of things… plus the students are all busy elsewhere 🙂

It’s not necessarily the contract winner that is a problem – it is more like the FC from my perspective. Has there been any consultation or market research carried out as to what people actually want to see and spend there money at? There may have been but we missed it.

I can see the FC point of view as well in all this. Tiso/Alpine type companies offer a whole complete slick package in a shiny packet. It’s easy to be tempted by big things and high concept plans and proposals.

The concern for us is the size of market for this operation, sure more people may now chose to go along to GT when the MegaPlex is built but really, why do people and newcomers not go now? I suspect it ain’t about the perceived lack of facilities or unfriendliness.

There are good facilities as it stands and also a lot of good spirits and friendliness. Will a new operator add significantly to the growth of our sport and hobby?

There are good facilities as it stands and also a lot of good spirits and friendliness. Will a new operator add significantly to the growth of our sport and hobby?

I suppose it would be like a long established family friendly wee local shop being impacted by a supermarket opening up next door ?

or an LBS being impacted by an Evans or other big chain.

could argue it’s progress and the Hub, which is a few stuck together portacabins that are way past their best, has come to the end of it’s useful life ?

FWIW I am a fan of Emma and Tracy and the Hub cafe, having ridden there for 10 yrs, eaten loadsa cakes and spoken with them both on a few occasions – just tyring to see it from a different perspective…

maybe unpopular thought, but what if the new Cafe is better than the Hub, like better food, warmer, cleaner, bigger, cheaper.

I’m not saying it will be, but surely the people should be given a chance. Sure, if it’s rubbish then all the above points are fair enough, but if not ?

That sort of reasonable argument won’t get you very far, away with you man 😉

hey rich – you know you agree with me though !!!

thebikechain – from a report published 5 years ago:

A larger permanent central facility is proposed (the Hub is now over capacity) – a private building in twelve acres of land adjacent to Glentress has just been purchased for this purpose and will be converted, but only after market consultation;
• The new central facilities will cater for all market needs – redressing the balance towards walkers and other recreation users. This facility will open in 2007.

I think that was about the extent of the public consultation. Did any of us who read that at the time really imagine this would soak up circa £10m of cash?

The point I was trying to make earlier is that this was penned within the context of a whole raft of recommendations for development throughout Scotland. A debate was never entered into – FC senior managers (note Geoff: SENIOR MANAGERS) quietly pursued the Peel project whilst pretty much leading several leading trail groups down a complete dead end.

This did not need to be an either or scenario…

I do,

I’m also a fan of the Hub and the fine selction of cakes and nachos. I also appreciate that Emma and Tracy may have done a lot to make Glentress the place it is but ulitmately I’ll still use GT if the new place is crap.

I’m not going there for the cake.

sorry to go OT.

cycleworlduk – is the AMBTA feasibility study looking at FCS managed land only or other landowners too?

The point I was trying to make earlier is that this was penned within the context of a whole raft of recommendations for development throughout Scotland. A debate was never entered into – FC senior managers (note Geoff: SENIOR MANAGERS) quietly pursued the Peel project whilst pretty much leading several leading trail groups down a complete dead end.

That may well be true – I don’t know, despite suggestions to the contrary, I neither work for nor represent the FC.

But, whatever the history, should it mean that any development at GT should treated with disdain? For the sport to flourish and all the other health, social, environmental benefits etc., to be realised, the priority has got to be about getting more folk on bikes.

My personal opinion is that if a spangly visitor centre brings in families that previously wouldn’t consider going, then it has to be a good thing. I have nothing against the current Hub operation, from my limited knowledge of it, the owners provide a good service to the current customers. I just think that a bit of vision is required (and has perhaps been demonstrated by FC) in pushing through a new visitor centre which should put more bums on seats and bikes on trails.

Of course, this opens the can of worms around whether more folk at Gentress is a good idea in the round. I can understand that some are going to be aggrieved about greater traffic and not being able to go at the speed they choose to in some parts, but that will have to be factored into the development plan for GT and beyond. How about this resulting in better facilities at Innerleithen for the gnarlier customer?

FC, do of course have to go into this with their eyes open and learn lessons from other similar developments (Ratho anyone?). If they do make a go of it, and there are plenty of decent operational managers within FC, then IMHO it can only benefit mountain biking in the Peebles valley and Scotland as a whole.

Just to be clear – I wasn’t suggesting direct action was the right thing to do. I was suggesting that the armchair warriors could do this if they felt that miffed – actually do something rather than sit at their keyboards moaning. Ie put up of shut up

I wouldn’t say that it’s fair to assume that the people running the new cafe will do a better or worse job the the current lot. It really is one of those things that we’ll just have to wait and see about.

I also dont get the god like status that is awarded to the food that they supply at the hub. It’s no different in quality to stuff you get in any decent cafe.

Maybe Tracy and Emma should form a parternship with a newly re-formed CVDG and establish a ‘new wave’ of biking facilities in Scotland, on private land! That would show them dastardly FC chappies, now, wouldn’t it!

After all, they know betterer than FCS! 🙂

Kit – try and keep OT eh? You seem obsessed with CV.

Maybe Tracy and Emma

blah blah blah smiley…

I hope you dont find yourself in the situation where the future of your business is uncertain whilst someone makes a few cheap shots on an internet forum, thinly disguising them as humour using smileys.

🙂 (naturally)