>where are all these people going to park<

1000 acres of land the FC has just bought (everything East of the Peel)should just about cover it 😉

Don’t think this is about “market forces”. This is about a public body which (in common with many these days) feels that it has to pretend to be affected by market forces.

Don’t think this is about “market forces”. This is about a public body which (in common with many these days) feels that it has to pretend to be affected by market forces.

No, the law determines they have to, same for local authorities and so on.

No, the law determines they have to, same for local authorities and so on.

And of course the logical response to that is to chuck a successful franchise on the scrap heap, in favour of a new multi-million pound development that assumes an increase in visitor numbers of 50%?

I do not think 500,000 cyclists are all going to turn up on the same day, but out of interest how many Q7s and X5s can you fit in 1000 acres?

Regarding comments about “being buisness” i happen to agree that it is pretty poor for T+E to have lost out and that they have contributed a huge amount to GT.

Without knowing the ins and outs fo the tender process i would assume T+E put together a tender based on 9 years experience operating at GT, a position of knowledge and experience that other tenders would not have had at GT.

Whoever wins the tender now, may find they have over-committed based on numbers such as 500k by 2015 and be paying unsustainble lease costs etc.

However, without the FC increasing income somehow there will be no money to maintain and develop trails since they have spanked all the cash on The Peel and extra 1000 acres.

You can not have your cake and eat it

1000 acres of land the FC has just bought (everything East of the Peel)should just about cover it

They won’t fit on the trails on a Saturday or Sunday though. 😕

And of course the logical response to that is to chuck a successful franchise on the scrap heap, in favour of a new multi-million pound development that assumes an increase in visitor numbers of 50%?

I was just responding in relation to the tendering of the services currently provided by those this thread relates to – the issue of the visitor centre is another kettle of fish, but I don’t know much about the story of it. I like it as it is just now to be honest.

Does anyone actually think a shiny new visitor centre will see a big increase in the number of mountain bikers using the trails?

The FC wants an increase in visitors they don’t care if they use the trails.

Hopefully any extra money the FC are making out of this gets ploughed back into the trails. They are the main reason people go. Doubt that’ll be the case though. If there was any sense out there they would have spent less on the Peel Centre and put some money into building new trails.

If there was any sense out there they would have spent less on the Peel Centre and put some money into building new trails.

Too right, I would much prefer to ride down the road at Inners, where the trails are better but there are no facilities, sadly the FC do not get this.

Does anyone actually think a shiny new visitor centre will see a big increase in the number of mountain bikers using the trails?

I think if there is a larger car park alongside, then that will increase numbers. At the moment, I suspect some people will be put off by the struggle to find a space at peak times. Personally, I won’t go any more than I do now (which is reasonably often). I find the current facilities adequate, and will still avoid the trails when it is busy. The new centre might attract more walkers though, who were possibly put off by the muddy, bike focused facilities.

bigdugsbaws – Member

If there was any sense out there they would have spent less on the Peel Centre and put some money into building new trails.

Too right, I would much prefer to ride down the road at Inners, where the trails are better but there are no facilities, sadly the FC do not get this.

Phase 2 – is a cable car from The Peel to the top of Minch Moor where there will be a Starbucks and a Greggs cycle-thru for your pie eating convenience.

I made this up before anyone takes it seriously and asks about chairlifts etc again

Anyone know how long the Hub’s lease lasts?

Was on another thread on stw think its 2012

Can’t say I feel to jaded about this. I don’t think the hub was the greatest cafe in the world- it has too many people going through it to have a friendly “know who you are” feel like a cafe on a normal ride, the staff always seemed different anyway and while the food is good it is fairly expensive and while good not exceptional.

Maybe the new one will be better maybe it won’t but a change is always good.

Very disappointing news. The guys at The Hub have put a lot of time and effort in helping to develop Glentress as a destination and venture that the community has bought into and benefited from. It makes me smile to see the nippers on their Saturday morning rides, the various events that the Hub have organised over the years and the fact that the facilities are spot on. It started as a small business and has grown and definitely contributed to and continues to Glentress as a great place to ride.

For those who feel a couple of quid is a lot for a bacon roll, get a grip and stop being so cheap! Seriously, what world do you live in? 😀

Will I use the new Peel Centre? Unless it is a local business that takes it on and can match the level of service that The Hub delivers, probably not.

Phase 2 – is a cable car from The Peel to the top of Minch Moor where there will be a Starbucks and a Greggs cycle-thru for your pie eating convenience.

I made this up before anyone takes it seriously and asks about chairlifts etc again

haha wouldn’t be surprised.

Agree it’s a bit harsh for Emma and Tracey to be ruled out of the running. I’d be interested to see why, and what the eventual winner is proposing to offer.

Staying positive, it could be a great opportunity for Emma and Tracey to move their successful operation down the road to Innerleithen. Maybe get some premises near to the trail head, and not have to deal with the FC again.

Was gonna post up the news but see someone beat me to it.
We did put in the best tender we could based on our knowledge and experience from the last 10years-we know how many customers we see each year and we also have been monitoring the visitor numbers ourselves since the All Forest survey of 2005 that put the annual visitor numbers at 385,000 based on 2.1 people per car which was justification to spend £9M of public money on a new centre.
There are about 200 car spaces currently at glentress in all the car parks-385,000 divided by 2.1 = 183,333.
183,333 divided by 365 = 502.
As I said we put in a bid based on what we have experienced at the venue and what we know is realistic in terms of running a business there. I hope it is a local business that wins the tender-using local produce and employing local people has always been important to us-and if it turns out to be a chain that contributes little to the local economy then that will be a shame but for next year at least there will be a choice and for those of you that don’t like The Hub then don’t use us-and for those of you that do then you will as always be welcome.
Emma.

Apparently Evans Cycles and Dave Hindes are pushing forward a joint bid on the bike shop and cafe 😆

Inverted paninis, grey import black pudding and abuse for dessert 😉

Edit – just reading the tender document and they talk of upping the visitor numbers from 200k (in 2005) to 300k by 2011 and 500k 2015 – where are all these people going to park; better get there early.

I think I heard that the new car park by the Peel will have about as many spaces as the current car park by the Hub, but the Hub’s car park will remain open as an overflow. I personally feel they should have put more spaces into the new car park but it sounds like they will be able to support more cars to some extent.

I would like to see more investment in the trails at Glentress than they seem to be getting just now. I rode at CyB in ’08 and rode there again last month. Quite a few bits of trail there seemed to have been rebuilt or be new, which helped make each visit feel nicely different. Glentress does not seem to be getting the money to spend on trails at the moment to keep it as fresh feeling as it could be. (Mind you, I go to Glentress far more frequently so this could just be a skewed view of things!)

I doubt though that the budget for the Peel came out of the same FC pot of money that trailbuilding funds come from.

Very to sorry to hear about that Emma.

Regarding trails I am pretty sure the FC is not committing to ANY NEW trails at Glentress for the significant future. Money is still being provided for maintenance and that is all. If you want more trail join the Trailfairies!

Emma – really sorry to hear that your bid has not been successful. As someone who in their line of work has a fair experience of bidding for public sector contracts, I understand a bit of what you have been up against. If you haven’t already, make sure you get verbal feedback on your tender, so push for something beyond those crappy generic letters they send out, you should be given the specific details of why your tender was not selected.

Good luck for the remaining lease time and what comes next. We live a way away from where you are but will support the Hub – wherever you end up! 😀

9 million quid for a cafe!!! 😯

>9 million quid for a cafe<

Not quite – first you have to buy up all the private real estate in the immmediate vicinity thus ensuring you have secured the venue against any competition… As for the capital works seems like the project grew legs as they blew through the original and subject budgets on at least two ocassions IIRC. And they ran it in-house of course so that wont have helped. Then the neighbours land came on the market (i.e the 1000 alluded to earlier) and clearly that had to be snapped up too – just in case. That cost wont be in the 9mil figure as that’s another pot.

AFAIK the project was largely paid for by selling another public forest – this required Ministerial approval. Dunno what forest or what else had to be sold once the costs started spiralling but as the FC reminded us recently in one of their well timed press releases this is really no big deal as they buy and sell land all the time 😉

The FC do not ‘make money’ on any of their VC’s and as Emma points out their visitor numbers are optimistic to say the least. Whether the scale and cost of this project was justified by the real or imagined V’ numbers and whether it’s sustainable is one aspect – another is the way other projects and the whole ‘future of mtb in Scotland’ thang was run ragged with futile and costly consultation exercises which produced the sum total of nothing whilst the Peel scheme was quietly hatched and flown under the radar.

E&T do indeed deserve honest feedback and to have the reasons their bid was unsuccesful explained in full. Very much doubt that will be forthcoming somehow.

I hope the other tender candidates took a leaf from the hub girls’ book and did their own research on the visitor numbers, as its an open secret that the FC figures are complete bollocks.

@rorschach its 9 million and counting, but not just a cafe sir, its an all singing all dancing visitor centre dontcha know.

March 2012 as far as i know.

One of the things you guys are missing is that the new centre is not just a cafe for the MTBers. Its aiming at a wider audience altogether. Whether it actually succeeds in attracting them is a different matter

Moi? No, I’m not ‘missing’ that and I’m also aware that some of the space is given over to staff accommodation. Doesn’t change my view of FC senior management and the way they conduct themselves one jot…

sorry – should be “some” of you guys

Heather Bash, were you involved with the CVDG?

tj is right on this.
i ranted about the things that went on at cyb for years but at the end of the day the facility that is in place now serves all forest users well.So i have to admit that i was wrong about the vision they had for it.

Karma?

I like the ambience at the Hub Cafe and would prefer not to lose it but the new place is not intended for the same purpose.

Peel is to be a centre for tourism for the whole area so cyclists are only a part of the target market. Go to any average “weekend” place, assess the clientele, and you will see what is going to be wanted by the FC eg Mom, Pop and brats at the garden centre.

what has CVDG got to do with this discussion?

Presumably kit is speculating on what motivates heather bash to post incessant negative criticism of the FC on any thread that mentions them. Without fail. Or with, depending on your POV.

E&T do indeed deserve honest feedback and to have the reasons their bid was unsuccesful explained in full. Very much doubt that will be forthcoming somehow.

Why not? The tenders will have been scored according to a set of agreed criteria by a board of assessors. The best score wins. It’s not rocket surgery.

the whole ‘future of mtb in Scotland’ thang was run ragged with futile and costly consultation exercises which produced the sum total of nothing

Oh and that little chestnut again. I think you’ll find it’s still running, and just because it isn’t pandering to the Audi-driving aspirational middle management, weekend warriors of Scotland’s central belt, doesn’t mean that it isn’t delivering anything.

It is standard practice to issue non-successful tender applicants with their scores and those of the other applicants, although anonymised, that is the scores aren’t matched to the names of the other tenderers. Cost might not always have the heaviest weighting, of course.

Normal practice is to do this at the very end of the process, so not just yet if the contract is not awarded.

You can request copies of the other applicants’ tenders under FOI(S)A but might not get far, a lot would be deemed commercially sensitive or confidential, but worth persevering IMEO.

garry_lager perhaps its the same motivation that sees the usual suspects jump to their defence every time?

Oh and that little chestnut again. I think you’ll find it’s still running, and just because it isn’t pandering to the Audi-driving aspirational middle management, weekend warriors of Scotland’s central belt, doesn’t mean that it isn’t delivering anything.

cheeky wee edit there Geoff? 😉

and since we’re big on edits, what has it delivered since 2007?

cheeky wee edit there Geoff?

Yup, my fingers can’t keep pace the rant speed in my head sometimes 😆

(other folk may call this being a bit slow!)