I’ve met 2 people I know are masons.

First guy is an absolute arse, really blatent about it, I’m in the masons, blah blah, my connections, blah blah, always wears the ring and the tie etc etc. Complete nob. Actually, I would not be surprised if we was not in it at all he’s such a wnker.

Other guy is pretty normal, does a fair bit on international travelling for his work so as he says no matter where he is there is someone to go and have a drink with, and thats pretty much it.

My paternal grandfather was the head of a lodge in Crawley. My old man fell out with him over it, after his dad tried in indoctrinate him into it.

Me? I can’t see what all the fuss is about. Not my cup of tea.

it seems a bit of a broad brush approach is going on here with regards to what masons are like and the general consensus seems to be quite negative. Now i’ve met guys out mountain biking who I would gladly talk to and others i’d avoid like the plague but I do not generalise and say all mountain bikers are bad just because I have met a few dodgy characters.
In all groups and walks of life you have the good bad and ugly and I don’t believe you can make a judgement on the few you have met, yes you will have those that join for the wrong reasons believing that they will get a helping hand at every corner and that it’s a status symbol that shouts i’m better than you, but that is a minority in my opinion as all those I have met over the years haven’t fallen into that category.
As for wanting to know more about freemasonry forget all the conspiracy theories that seem to surround freemasonry and research the subject with an open mind, hell find out where the local lodge is and go in for a chat and ask all the questions you want.

Now i’ve met guys out mountain biking who I would gladly talk to and others i’d avoid like the plague but I do not generalise and say all mountain bikers are bad just because I have met a few dodgy characters.
In all groups and walks of life you have the good bad and ugly and I don’t believe you can make a judgement on the few you have met

This is true, however, anyone I’ve ever met or heard of, who has had any interaction with the masons, when they themsleves are not masons, and particularly where two or more are gathered, has had a bad experience of it. So, whilst it might not be appropriate to generalise in the mtb case, the Bayesians amongst us can pretty sure that the Masons are a bit dodgy.

have you had an unfortunate experience with one of them there masonites?

Is there any other kind?

i’m split on this one as evidential probabilities are all good and well but this only gives you a partial snap shot not a true reflection of the whole. Could all the negative comments from non masons who you mention be related to either jealousy (for want of a better word) that they themselves have never been approached or the feeling that they are missing out on some great secret.

as a wise man once said to me:

‘the freemasons? oh yeah that just a bunch of men getting together for the kinda sex they’re frumpy old wifes wont let them have at home’

think he was a member for years but then left or something…

i used to work at the building the masons use near me, the guy running the building admitted to me he owed close to quarter of a million in tax… his father owned the building and was (from what i understood) a high level chappy in the masons that met there…. nothing happened with the tax….

*insert creepy music*

EDIt – that makes me seem super anti-masons… just adding to the uninformed rubbish part of the thread, i dont actually care what they get up to, there’s a lodge a few doors down from my old guitarists house and we used to park there, never got told to bugger off so if they provide free off-road parking then i suggest there should be one next to every town centre 😀

Police officers have trouble making real world friends,

You really have trumped yourself with that particular gem. It speaks volumes about your issues with the police more than anything else in this thread.

I was asked to join once, but the invite was mysteriously withdrawn when they found out I was Catholic. Also, when I got my nipple out at the local mason’s lodge, the Grand Wizard tried to put his ring on it. I couldn’t get out of the door fast enough, with one trouser leg rolled up.

I guess they’re not all bad

Is it me or is this 100+ post thread missing a few of the more ‘regular’ forumites? I can’t believe a few of the usual ranty/witty folk didn’t have some two-penneth or other to put in. Was it ‘lodge night’ last night or something?

I guess they’re not all bad

I don’t know who any of those folk are… they look like funny handshake brigade though.. and deeply creepy and uncool.. so maybe not such a good advert for Masons..?

what about this one…?

i’m split on this one as evidential probabilities are all good and well but this only gives you a partial snap shot not a true reflection of the whole. Could all the negative comments from non masons who you mention be related to either jealousy (for want of a better word) that they themselves have never been approached or the feeling that they are missing out on some great secret

well the secrecy prevents a true reflection
I think the chance of negative posters being asked to join or accepting is rather low. You may draw your own conclusion [ it should be amusing post it up]on why this would be the case.
if this is your view when you are split I wonder how condescending you will be when you make your mind up.

Not sexist yet excluding women?

http://www.womenfreemasonsusa.com/history.html

Probably like the W.I. Not sexist but excluding men.

Ha ha, good one, Marilyn Mason!

some info here
http://www.myspace.com/mashiach.watchman/blog/507793347
it seems some guy called Lucifer is their Great architect?

Not in myself.
What a load of crap spouted above. one of biggest givers to charity in the uk. possibly the biggest.
One thing I must say though is that if given 2 candidate for a job. 1 you know and 1 you don’t , only a complete moron would ignore the personal knowledge .

You are right only a moron would ignore who was the best candidate and would go for the person in the same club as them. It is indicative of the real reason , many suspect, people join. For personal profit rather than charitable endeavour.
They are the second biggest after the National Lottery so I assume it is fair to call them the largest givers to charity to some degree.
that info is on the website but there is no information on how to join.

One thing I must say though is that if given 2 candidate for a job. 1 you know and 1 you don’t , only a complete moron would ignore the personal knowledge .

When I went for my interview for my current job there were two interviewers. One of them, it transpired & totally by accident, was the brother (like as in family, not masonic brother)of a guy I knew. The other said. ‘i see on your application form you list your pastimes & interests as mountain biking &… (blahdy blahdy blah), What bike do you ride? A short converstaion ensued on the good/bad points of Orange, Marin, Trek, etc.
Guess what, I got the job.

Having been a (young!) mason for best part of 8 years now im probably in a fairly good position to comment.
Firstly, the negativity on here is laughable. I heard the same theories before I joined and was intreagued to find out the truth, which is a lot less exciting than you may be lead to believe.

As already mentioned above (by perhaps one of our more open minded members) there are dodgy characters in all walks of life – members on here included im sure. Masonry is not exempt of dodgy blokes but it does do its best to exempt them, and if any member does cross the line morally or legally they are barred. I have witnessed this happen.

In a nutshell masonry does a lot more good than any perceived harm. Its hundreds of thousands of members (UK) all contribute to chrarity at every meeting. Local and national charities all benefit. Charity fund raising events are organised, and during a meeting a large proportion of time is spent discussing how much money has been raised and how much more could be raised with a little more effort.
It also does indeed serve as a gathering/social place for our OAP’s – keeping them in conversation and giving them something to do – hardly anything wrong with that?
Younger members also arrange other social events – BBQ’s – golf days – go-karting, you name it – all of these events raise money for charity.

Yes – freemasonry is the second largest contributor to charities in the UK.

During most meetings, ritual practice is carried out (the secretive bit), which is where the grown up Scouts/Cubs bit comes in to play. I agree, it is like scouts for men. Anything wrong with that? Men bonding? People striving to acheive a goal and earn a modicum of respect from fellow members as a result? Hardly worth lambasting.
ALL of this practice is readily available on the internet as are ALL of the passwords and handshakes. Most of the negative folk cant be bothered to find out for themselves.

Essentially, its a club for (mainly decent) men to gather, drink beer, have food cooked for them, dress smartly, make contacts within trade/business, socialise, carry out some pomp & ceremony (which the British are best at), and raise a SH!T LOAD of money for charity.
Hardly cloak & dagger.

Of course someones uncle’s neighbours mate’s butcher from the pub was a dodgy geezer whom apparently got away with something that couldnt be explained – that only happens to Mason’s, right?
Jeesh.

And to the fella who found it sexist & racist – My lodge has asian and black members whom would disagree – as would the women in women’s freemasonry.
Perhaps you happened to be invited to a lodge where (shock/horror) some members were a bit old school.
Perhaps try another lodge where the members would be different. As in most clubs/societies, the members all have different personalities, and masonic lodges are all individual.
Or you could just man up.

Why the secrecy? Why not?! It’s cool to hear the tongues wagging.. (despite nothing really being secret).

Masonry is not exempt of dodgy blokes but it does do its best to exempt them

Read up on the Birmingham six case and try to convince me that nothing is secret. A point blank refusal to reveal the names of lodge members involved in the perversion of justice by members of the Birmingham force’s serious crimes squad.

Perhaps you can tell us how many of the Met officers that took money from journalists are freemasons. No of course you can’t because you’re sworn to secrecy.

slimjim78 – Everything you have said has just confirmed my suspicions that Masons are completely and utterly, a bunch of mentalist weirdos. 😀

Why the secrecy? Why not?!

There are 2 main reasons to keep anything secret

Because it’s ridiculous to the point of embarrassing you
Because it’s sinister to the point of shaming you

And to the fella who found it sexist & racist – My lodge has asian and black members whom would disagree

Can Asian or black men not be sexist or racist? This is news to me!

LOL!

@ Edukator (ironic name) Birmingham 6? Yes, a total masonic cover up, the grand master told me so.
Fact is, our own government is involved in more cover ups every day than any masonic conspiracy you can spout.

@GaryGlitter – I tend to agree, mainly mentalists.

@ iDave – Did I not say that freemasonry was like Scouts for grown ups? Im happy to admit to scouts being a midly emabarassing past time – woggles and all that jazz. so willing to accept masonry in the same vein. Im sure you dont have any secrets though – best not go routing through your drawers eh
TBH, the secrecy thing is just part of the ritual stemming back from hundreds of years of tradition. Its just members being true to their values/traditions. The origins of masonry supposedly stem from a founding member giving his life rather than divulging passwords to villains whom had struck a mortal blow. Its about being true to the value of remaining true! As explained MANY time above, there are actually NO SECRETS, its all available on tinterweb and in various books.

@ ransos – Que? I was merely confirming freemasonry to not be a rascist organisation, your slant on the comment is cunning, but we all know what the original poster was refering too, do we really need to go down that path?

there are actually NO SECRETS

OK then, tell us what you do and say at your scouts for grown ups?

@ ransos – Que? I was merely confirming freemasonry to not be a rascist organisation, your slant on the comment is cunning, but we all know what the original poster was refering too, do we really need to go down that path?

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

Next!

I was asked to join once, but the invite was mysteriously withdrawn when they found out I was Catholic.

I think this is possibly the biggest issue is that there is a perception rightly or wrongly that it’s a closed shop in that regard, i think it’s not supposed to be, but particularly in a scottish and irish perspective i think there is a bit of overlap in the membership between the Masons and the Orange Order…I think membership of one is ment to disband you from the other, i don’t think that happens in practice however.

As I said earlier I don’t really have any real problem with the concept of the Masons in that it’s probably just a closed drinking shop, but the Masons are infected by the sinister goings on of the OO imo..

OK then, tell us what you do and say at your scouts for grown ups?

Why? Is just old fashioned syle rhetoric, look it up. Every word is online.

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

Can you prove otherwise?
So on that token, you are accusing Freemasonry of taking an ”im not rascist but..” stance? Feel free to jump to whatever conclusions you wish, its a free world. I happen to really like black Bob in my lodge.

BTW – The negativity on here smacks of ”I dont understand it so I dont like it”

i think there is a bit of overlap in the membership between the Masons and the Orange Order.

There was some footage from Donal MacIntyre, though with a name like that it is unlikely to be unbiased

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK21p8NEL8Y[/video]

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

And I didnt use it as proof as there being no rascists in freemasonry, on the contrary, I made the poitn that there are quite a few old schoolers with Alf Garnet beliefs – there are a lot of old people after all!. My point was that these people exist in all walks of life and Masonry isnt exclusive to them. Any pub on a friday night is usually as bad.
My other point was that there any many non-rascists in masonry, as in ALL OTHER walks of life.
Read what you want to read though.

BTW – The negativity on here smacks of ”I dont understand it so I dont like it”

the whole point is that we can’t ‘understand it’ as it’s a secret group – the info online hasn’t been released by the Masons, almost like they’re prefer us not to know

personally i never said i didn’t like the masons, though they seem to attract people who i would have little in common with

BTW – The negativity on here smacks of ”I dont understand it so I dont like it”

Not really, there’s not a lot to understand is there. Pretty much like any other Christian group aren’t they?

BTW – The negativity on here smacks of ”I dont understand it so I dont like it”

you cannot be a secret organisation then complain that we dont understand you … her ei know open up like actually tell me what the rituals are or the handshake rather than say Googlle it. Even on here, when defending it behind a nom de plume, you cannot actually tell us can you.

That is why we appear to not “understand” ;you are secretive

Oooh yes, tell us the signs for recognising masons

errr…

1) No women (outside their own little enclave)
2) Lots and Lots of problems in the past
3) P2 in Italy. Google it.
4) In my area (medicine) there was a masonic definite power base and circle of influence in a hospital where I trained.
5) The defensive tone of some of the members of the craft who have crawled out on this thread has to be seen to be believed.
6) And the people who are members might be just as generous to charity if they were members of another organisation. The Masons don’t get to claim all the credit for that.

Nothing really against them – it just seems a bit… infantile and pathetic. A bunch of blokes who feel the need to be take themselves too seriously.

slimjim78 – I went to one meeting only, all those present were white middle class men, and the telling of racist and sexist jokes seemed to be the rule rather than the exception. I found it offensive, I’m sure there are meetings where this does no happen, I was not generalising to the whole organisation.

There is much more to sexismsm than ‘Women members’

and much more to racism than ‘Black & Asian members’

the fact that people think that this is all there is to it worries me!

The masons will always have their knockers

The Masons don’t get to claim all the credit for that.

No, but the masonic charities get to claim half the contributions

you cannot be a secret organisation then complain that we dont understand you … her ei know open up like actually tell me what the rituals are or the handshake rather than say Googlle it. Even on here, when defending it behind a nom de plume, you cannot actually tell us can you.

As I already mentioned (do people actually read what is written?) Any ‘secrecy’ stems from people remaining true to their values and commitments. We have sworn a cremonial oath not to divulge, its purely ceremonial but would feel wrong to break.
Do you see masons going crazy over the secrets being splashed all over the internet and in books? no. it doesnt really matter.

Pretty much like any other Christian group aren’t they?

Not really, being christian isnt a pre-requisite, just belief in a supreme being. Christianity is never mentioned, hence Asian (hindu/sikh) members from and members of other faiths.

1) No women (outside their own little enclave)
2) Lots and Lots of problems in the past
3) P2 in Italy. Google it.
4) In my area (medicine) there was a masonic definite power base and circle of influence in a hospital where I trained.
5) The defensive tone of some of the members of the craft who have crawled out on this thread has to be seen to be believed.
6) And the people who are members might be just as generous to charity if they were members of another organisation. The Masons don’t get to claim all the credit for that.

1)Ever been to a pub with a men only room? Its old fashioned and its a bit wrong, but somehow it feels good. Masonry certainly cant be considered ‘modern’, I agree. They are making steps though.
2) lot & lots of problems? cant be bothered to ask for specifics to this vague point, but every orgnanisation has its dark problems – as does every race/government etc.
3) Italy? totally different organisation. Freemasonry is world wide but only connected by name in most cases. What is practiced/governed in one country is totally & utterly different in another. Its like saying a naughty italian school boy must be involved in the mafia.
4) So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a fool not too. Even if what you say is true.
5)again – tarring with the same brush. There are knob ‘eds in every organisation, you must have encountered some ‘ethusiastic’ members.
6) they would be just as generous, or at least inclined to be. But masonry binds them, gives them a common interest and probably raises the prospective outcome.

Supertramp – which province was that per chance?

Ive seen all kinds of ‘classes’ in my lodge and others ive visited, shame yours was sullied.
Ive heard tongue in cheek jokes, and ive never witnessed racism.

Have heard plenty of wife whingingness though.