watsontony - ygm
For those who have no idea...
There was a wonderful explanation of the lack of understanding of the true meaning of poverty by and old chap on radio 4 this afternoon. He spoke of a conversation he had with another chap about the "good old days". He said what was so good about them, all he can remember was being cold. To which the other chap said "Yes but you could just put on another warm jumper". To which he replied "Not that easy when you don't even have one warm Jumper!
watsontony-- you need to get a start on a proper job, with proper wages,conditions --they are harder to come by in this present climate , but they do happen now and then-- usually large projects- but not always--my advice to all workers--make sure you are in a union-- especially in construction-- so much bogus self employment-- another crime in my book !!
I think this is the greatest demonstration that some people with money really do understand exactly what it means to be poor. Take it away, Ann Romney:
“'They were not easy years. You have to understand, I was raised in a lovely neighborhood, as was Mitt, and at BYU, we moved into a $62-a-month basement apartment with a cement floor and lived there two years as students with no income.
'It was tiny. And I didn’t have money to carpet the floor. But you can get remnants, samples, so I glued them together, all different colors. It looked awful, but it was carpeting.
'We were happy, studying hard. Neither one of us had a job, because Mitt had enough of an investment from stock that we could sell off a little at a time.
'The stock came from Mitt’s father. When he took over American Motors, the stock was worth nothing. But he invested Mitt’s birthday money year to year — it wasn’t much, a few thousand, but he put it into American Motors because he believed in himself. Five years later, stock that had been $6 a share was $96 and Mitt cashed it so we could live and pay for education."
Heartrending isn't it.
artistknowasstr-- my travelling days are over,will bide my time and await wylfa B- that should see me out....
i wish i could get a proper job, since leaving school at 16 i have done joinery at collage for 2 years then since 18 i have been from one temp position to another. broken up by spells on jobseakers allowance i am now 22. i am on esa untill the 19th (shoulder injury) but am still desperately looking for work. If no one else will give me a secure full time job i will have to make one for myself. I am currently writing a business plan i dont want to be rich i just want enough to support myself any thing else is a bonus. this life of let downs and boredom is not for me i know i can do so much better and i will do better. sometimes things just get me down but as the saying goes it is always darkest before dawn. i now just need to make my own "dawn"
I Am moved by that speech Northwind
Like an intelligent rational Alex Jones but with added empathy.
listen up , you only young, your life will get better, believe me none of us can see round corners, you will land good one day, i done many many shit jobs, good thing about the building game is they don't last for ever, soon as you start a job, its the start of the finish!
This is the worst time for construction for thirty years or so, but it will pick up , it is cyclical, wages will go up, opportunities will appear, there will be a 'skill' shortage and the whole thing will begin again-- but you have a good attitude, so will always get a start.Stay in touch, you never know !!
I Am moved by that speech Northwind
yep, unblock a bowel that
im currently in between jobs. at the moment due to an injury i am on employment support allowence because my doctor says i am unfit to work.
But you are still ok to ride your bike? What does he/she say bout that?
Sounds like you are trying to look for work and to make something happen work wise and I wish you all the best with that. What's in your business plan? Anything you can share or we can help with? My mate is a self employed chippy so could ask him for advice if you want.
But you are still ok to ride your bike? What does he/she say bout that?
i am still going on my bike yes. it does hurt. The thing is esa and jsa are the same money wise. but for this month whilst i am signed off for a genuine injury i am going to stay on esa but still look for work. the only difference is i dont have to sign on.
There are a lot of blaggers out there. but i am certainly not one of them. i want a secure job more than anything. its not just about the money. As long as i can live a comfortable life i am not too botherd. BUT i want to feel satisfied about what i do. i want to live a life i can be proud of.
The situation is only going to get worse for anyone unfortunate to rely on benefits as the 1% rise agreed today is going to be well below the anticipated increases in food and fuel increases, not to mention if any one needs to use public transport. The change to Universal Credit later this year is going to be chaotic for many people. And changes to Housing Benefit have marginalised tens of thousands, particulary young single people. And if your on ESA you will have to endure an ASOS assessment which has forced many severly ill people to have their ESA benefit withdrawn.
Yet in yesterday's Daily Mail there was an article about Boris Johnson bragging that the Child Tax Credits his family had received had helped fund skiing holidays.
The reasons behind people's unemployment, poverty, benefit dependency are many, various and often complex - so Daily Mailish simplistic views about work-shy benefit scroungers watching Jeremy Kyle on their flat screen TVs are largely wide of the mark. Job loss, health problems, divorce and many other factors can cause people to fall into the financial problems and may inhibit people moving back into sustainable employment.
I work with an advice charity, and one of our projects deals with current and ex-servicemen who are facing money / benefits problems. The project is seeing on average 20 (ex)servicemen per month, so if this is scaled up to a national level the annual numbers will run into thousands (hardly a marginal problem). The charity is also seeing an increasing number of people who are affected by food poverty.
There is help and support out there for ex-services so it might be worthwhile the OP's mate contacting the British Legion, SSAFA or Royal Airforce Benevolent Society and they can refer him onto the appropriate advice.
RichPenny - Member
I've never really spent that much time with people on benefits, mainly due to luck really.
I've just re-read that and it makes me sound like a bit of a ****. So I've left it in
POSTED 14 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
I thought the use of the word 'luck' was quite pertinent. How many people consider what they've achieved in life owes a large amount to the 'luck' of being born in the UK/stable parents/whatever.
Sure there are always rags to riches stories, achievement against adversity, but I'm pretty sure I, and many others on here wouldn't live in the relative comfort I/we do if been born into less desirable circumstances.
A friend of mine who has a successful career in the city main bug bear with the 'ho-ray Henry's' he works with is the sheer ignorance of the fortunate lives they've been born into, private schooling, endless educational opportunities etc, and the headstart it's given them over a lot of the population
Working or just attending a place of work over the required hours also deprives your family and freinds of your company.
Not over my required hours at all. The whole construction industry works on, generally, 55hr/5.5day weeks. That's just the way it is, in case you didn't know, but yes, the second part of your statement is true. It does do just that.
That's the way (Generalising here, but it's true) that less educated/lucky/able people manage to afford a decent life and home for their families: They work long hours in crap jobs that sitting-on-their-arse-all-day office bods can't even begin to imagine ever doing, the sort of job they sneer at. That's what I've been doing for 23 years. Yes, it's shit. I've worked all over the country, outside in crap weather up to my knees in mud, at 10pm in November at times. I've started work at 4.45am, got home at 11.30pm, been sworn at, threatened by the 'less honest' section of our society and nearly walked out 100 times.... To build the offices you work in and the roads you drive to them on.
All of that and more, to pay for a nice, but average, house, some bikes and a holiday now and then.
And you know what, I do not feel, AT ALL guilty about having a few months off on the tax I've paid into the system since I was 17. Not even slightly. But to be told that I might loose that few quid because I decide to PAY FOR MY OWN retraining...? That pisses me off a little bit.
PeterPoddy - Member
They work long hours in crap jobs that sitting-on-their-arse-all-day office bods can't even begin to imagine ever doing, the sort of job they sneer at.
Well done for not being a hypocrite.
from another thread:
for me and my wife 2500 [fixed outgoings] a month, inc. all food car, bills, life insurance, mortgage, childcare etc etc.
If I'm honest it's really getting me down at the moment. How can we save anything when our outgoings are that large, it's **** ridiculous.
Not having a pop at the person who wrote this - just struck by the contrast in "situations".
Well done for not being a hypocrite.
It's true though. I've been on the end of it.
peterpoddy-- the construction industry would work 24/7 if it could , us trade unionists have been fighting for decent wages, a 39 hour week-- so you can have a life-- its an uphill battle , but doesn't mean you shouldn't try for things that others take for granted--have you heard of the national working rule agreement?-- all big firms are party to it ---well in theory-- any hour over 39 is paid at premium rates-- non of this shift shit-- payments for working in ardous conditions, height money, travelling money, lodge money-- these are things that you should be getting --not bogus self employment at a fixed rate irrespective of the hours/days you work-- less hours more pay-- not the other way round !!
To the OP. I really do feel for your mate and hope that he can find the help he needs. It's disgraceful how we as a society allow others to live in such arduous and degrading circumstances when others have so much more, and we have leaders that will continue to allows this to happen.
FWIW I spent 5 years of on off employment benefits cycle. Working for £2.50 per hour (before the minimum wage) in temp jobs just to get off benefits with the hope of something permanent / better in the future. I only survived because of my then girlfriend, now wife, and her support both financial and emotional. I remember some of the low points, wearing layers of clothes and stopping in bed to keep warm, only eating Tescos Value beans and bread, 3p a tin and 9p a loaf for weeks on end, so that I could afford to take my clothes to the laundrette to wash them once a month.
I eventually managed to keep a job long enough for it to become permanant and dragged myself out of the cycle. Three years ago I was made redundant after 15 years of continuous employment. I found other work straight away, unfortunately it was minimum wage, halved my salary overnight. Soon afterwards I found out that the tax credits top up brought the low wages up to £10 per week more than if I had claimed JSA. That was for working shifts including nights. Not much dignity in that. I seriously considered giving up work and claiming benefits TBH. Pride, amongst other things stopped me doing that and I did manage to find a job back doung what I'm qualified and experienced doing.
I've managed to get back to where I was career wise before redundancy. Took 2.5 years and a bout of depression but things have settled down a bit now.
bigblackshed-- cheers for the support-- my mate is pretty overwhelmed by reading this thread-- he is going to get in touch with the legion again, but in all honesty, he is not ready for the rigours, both mental and physical of work-- this is the hard bit--he really should be on sick/convalescence-- but new rules deem him 'fit' for work-- its pretty degrading, adding to the stress he already has, but , he has good friends, and i,m sure he will conquer this predicament !!
what you say about the benefit/low wage conundrum is so very true sadly-- like you i've been working continuously for the last ten years, in the building trade, until getting 'sacked' 6 months ago-- well blow me-- my benefits come to the same as my take home pay, but now my kids get hot dinners at school-- couldn't afford them when working !! Its a bollox alright-- personally i find lots to do with my leisure time--- makes you wonder how people fit in a life around work ! The lack of money can be a drag, but the extra cycling is great !!
OP you got message
The position I was in after redundancy made me feel utterly worthless. The Job Centre couldn't help. There were simply no jobs to apply for, no retraining on offer, no support. I went from high £20sk income to £13k when I took the only job available. I had been removed from the realities of how bad the job market was up until then. When I started, on the same induction day the guys I was working with consisted of 3 engineers, a HGV tech, 2 manufacturing production managers, and an accountant. All now working for just above NMW in a job that frankly, and i hate to use this term, was beneath them in terms of skills and position.
This job also required you to work contracted hours. If you were required to work OT then no extra pay. Time off in lieu at the companies descretion. Also you had to opt out of the working time directive. No opt out, no job.
I'm glad I stuck at it and remained employed. It certainly helped to get the job I now have. I was told by the new company that they admired my determination to crawl out of the pit I was in.
thought that an update is relevant, six months later my mate is in a 'better' place mentally- we had to go to a tribunal in manchester a few months ago to plead for a higher rate of military incapacity benefit, they increased his rate for PTSD, but reduced the leg injury one, so the end result was no increase ! at least there was more recognition for the mental issues.. this knocked him back a bit,but as they say, you can't keep a good man down, and thankfully he was not forced onto the work programme, so he has now got a case worker from a local charity who is assisting with another appeal, its ironic that a mate of his who left the army in the 90's managed to get a 50% rate, yet suffered very little, he now is a self employed window cleaner with many contracts! This is the nub for my mate and many like him, there is not the 'cash' available since demand has risen sharply as a result of increased military activity. The state is happy to use people but not pick up the consequences.
I have just come to my first anniversary of unemployment, now on the 'work programme'-where if any job is secured a private 'job' company will benefit--whether they play any role or not-- that is for the next two years ! they get a bonus if you still in work after six months and a wacking big cash drop if you there after a year !! welcome to the privatisation scam of unemployment ... n the plus side, with all this lovely weather, have enjoyed cycling about looking for work..
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