Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 136 total)
  • For those interested parties (one armed rider update)
  • ollieT
    Free Member

    Well done to you, My mate who i ride with lost his arm some years ago due to a motorbike accident. He rides all the time and is a pretty good xc racer. He can do sub 50 min laps of cwmcarn and finished 14th in the 50km vet at margam the other week and wants to go faster all the time. If you would like some help with bike set up and things im sure he would be more than happy to help.

    alpin
    Free Member

    very inspirational!

    i was touring through the black forest a few years ago towing a bob trailer up a 12% incline. thought i was doing well to keep up with the walkers then some dude with one leg went storming past me….. he was on a road bike and had less body mass to move so technically he was cheating.

    respect to all 3 limbed cyclists out doing what they enjoy!

    you seen those pics of the amputees on TJ’s link? jeeesus! balls ‘o steel.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    There was a one armed, one legged rider at 10 Under the Ben this year!

    Much respect.

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    TN
    Free Member

    Yes, seen the mtb-amputee site before – it’s pretty cool, isn’t it? I think that was one of the other things that really convinced J he could not only get back on his bike but still do interesting stuff.
    I always whinge at J saying the reason he wastes me on the uphills is because of the weight advantage. I don’t think I can really win that one though ‘cos he always comes back with the ‘residual effects of the chemo’ argument. Pah, some people… 😉

    Ollie – does your mate use a prosthetic or does he just ride one-handed?

    tankslapper
    Free Member

    Respect – not sure I can whine so much now! 😀

    Does it cause any balance issues? I realise he probably compensates but would weights on the other bar help – just a thought from the (totally) uninitiated

    There was a lad I used to ride against in the Meridas with a leg missing – hell of a bloke and the bugger always beat me by 10 mins or so! Think he’d lost it in Bosnia or something. Never laughed so much when a South Africaner one year joined us and started bitching about cramp in his leg – this other lad simply rubbed his prosthetic limb and said ‘its a bitch isnt it’

    TN
    Free Member

    Tankslapper – the weights question is a really interesting one. He definitely rides a bit twisted to balance himself on the bike and then ends up with back ache sometimes, so I wonder whether something like this might be worth looking into? I am a bit useless at physics so I don’t know whether it would help or not?
    He’s our resident geek so I will mention it to him…

    ollieT
    Free Member

    TN, He does use a prosthetic with a sort of ball joint and cup that he has had made. He has only just had it updated because the older version could sometimes rattle loose. The new version is alot better fit and gives him more control and is alot lighter. I will see if he can send you some pictures and info.

    TN
    Free Member

    Ollie, that would be great. thanks. You can, in theory, mail by clicking on my name…

    ollieT
    Free Member

    No problem, I am out riding with simon tonight so i will get him to contact you and sort some pics

    TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    BoardinBob – Member
    There was a one armed, one legged rider at 10 Under the Ben this year!

    Much respect.

    That was Dave Adams. He unfortunately fell off on his first lap due to another rider stalling on a techy section. As you can imagine, quick dismounts are probably a bit of an issue when trying to unclip a prosthetic leg. Anyhow, he told me the marshall nearly fainted when his bike fell away with his leg still attached. It was a few seconds later the marshall realised it was his false leg. They had a right laugh about it.

    Unfortunately he had hurt himself too badly to carry on so that was the end of his event. Really sound bloke and loves his bikes

    TN
    Free Member


    We broke the 20 mile barrier today! 🙂 (32km for you newfangled types, with about 700m ascent, mostly off road!)
    He says his remaining arm doesn’t feel too bad afterwards which is really good news. I am fairly sure it is the new bike that’s helping – he’s definitely better on the hills and apart from a couple of ‘dumb falls’ he was mostly upright today.

    And afterwards – knackered but pretty pleased with himself.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Ta for the update – its good to see how he is getting on.

    This might be a daft idea but I would have thought a big problem would be when braking that he will tend to push on the bar and turn the bike. Would a handlebar that was more like a tiller mounted centrally but moving side to side make this easier? Something like a tri bar?

    He would still have the levarage to turn the steering but under braking he would not have an offcentre load. Steering would be weird but braking would be easier.

    On motorcycles one armed riders sometimes use kneepads on the tank to lean onto to take the braking loads to keep these loads off the bars. I cannot see anyway of doing this on a bicycle tho unless he could put a pad on the side of the top tube just infront of the knee in its most forward position on the side with no arm – then under braking the load would be taken on the knee one side and the arm the other.

    Just a thought and might be daft.

    TN
    Free Member

    Hi TandemJeremy. Interesting ideas, thank you. I read your post to J and he is quite intrigued by the pad on the top tube idea. I think we might see if we can rig something and give it a go. Will keep you informed…

    This is great – everyone coming up with ideas and suggestions and even if they might not be suitable for J they might be able to help someone else at some point in the future. This is when internet forums are at their very best. 🙂

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Nae worries – sometimes thinking in an unorthodox way has its benefits 🙂

    Odd tho it may be this is the sort of area that has interested me for years.

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Not read through the whole lot but has he tried using a steering damper, I understand for arm amps it can be a great help.
    Also may be worth looking at something like this http://www.velotechservices.co.uk/rotors.htm as it would help with not putting so much torque through his upper body.
    And lastly, you guys going to beyond bounderies live?

    TN
    Free Member

    Hi 1LegRikk. J had a steering damper on the hardtail but not on this new full sus yet. Hopey are sending a new bracket to fit the bike but he’s riding pretty well without. I don’t know what beyond bounderies live is, so not planned to go – will look it up though. Is it something you’re involved in, or would you be going as a visitor?

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    http://www.beyondboundarieslive.co.uk
    I was meant to be showing with another amp and doing a talk each day but the organisers couldn’t get it arranged in time so we’re just going to ride around in the display field showing the flag for amp cyclists and answer any Q’s people have.
    Hopefully next year we can do the full monty 🙂
    Would be good if J can get himself sorted with an arm, a lot of mtb ones use a fox shock at the elbow to damped the forces and are meant to work well.
    The NHS with anything out of the mainstream ie arms/legs for cycling are terrible, I gave up asking and altered my spare leg myself, the limb centre went mental but it did make them realise I was serious and from then on did me legs to my specification for cycling.
    Do your research, work out what you need and why and keep pushing, just be forceful and annoying, eventually you win 😉

    TN
    Free Member

    It seems the prosthetist has come up with a possible plan for a riding arm, but without the approval of the consultant so not sure yet whether he’ll even get that. The consultant appears to want all his patients to sit back and be gentle with themselves.
    As far as J is concerned it is about getting back to your life pre-cancer and amputation – and to him that is climbing and cycling. Surely that should also be the aim of the NHS consultant? His occupational therapist has been great in trying to get him ‘something’ sorted out, but she has just retired so we have no idea what the person who takes over will be like.
    The major problem is fixing any prosthetic securely and also the shoulder joint. Elbows are (relatively) easy and that’s where the shocks come in, but because of the range of movement in the shoulder creating something that will stay where it should when needed and yet ‘give’ sometimes is proving more complicated.

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Nope their not about getting you back to you used to be doing, it’s all about getting you well/able enough to live and look after yourself, after that it’s all gravy.
    Same with me when I said I’d starting cycling, it was up to me to change the bike to fit what they’d done which was fine to begin with while I riding around the park but once I started getting a bit more adventurous the limitations started showing through.
    I then decided to make the bike as standard as possible and alter the leg to fit the bike, that’s when the issues with the limb centre started as they have no remit to do anything but get you mobile.
    I found it works best to go to them with what you want and push for it and I don’t just mean “I want a working arm”, design it, show them how to do it and exactly what he needs, I asked for some more changes and they’ve said no as it deviates to far from standard so I’ve designed what i want and am getting some bits through the back door of the limb centre which I’ll then take to an engineering firm to make up for me, once I know it works I’ll take it in to the limb centre and show them it works as I said, at that point they cave in with the good thing being they will then let others have it as it’s been proved.
    Have a chat with these guys http://www.pacerehab.com/ they make the limbs for sportsmen and paralympians, great bunch of guys and very helpful, also you can get refured to them by your limb centre but that IS an uphill struggle 🙁

    TN
    Free Member

    Rikk, we have a friend who has been working with Pace to get a good mountainbiking leg design sorted out. I think they’ve been working on sorting out a good socket more than anything. I don’t know whether you’re all set up now, but if not I could put you in touch with him, maybe it could save you or him reinventing the wheel…

    The OT put J in touch with a couple of local retired engineers who help out with solutions for amputees but when he told them what he wanted they pretty much ran off. :-S
    If this ‘project’ by the prosthetist doesn’t come to anything I think our next stop will be the university (engineering or prosthetics? Not sure yet) to see whether any of their students fancy a project…

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Now J is back riding and we’ve all mentally patted him on the back and said ‘Well done mate!’ this is now morphing into the most interesting technical thread to ever hit STW. I, for one, am glued to it. If you do get him an arm built, you realise we gotta have pics, don’t you?
    😀

    TN
    Free Member

    Oh don’t worry, there will be pics!

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Just thinking, it may be worth going back to real basics…thinking it through trying to replicate the shoulder/elbow/wrist elbow isn’t really needed initially all you need is an equal force pushing against the bars on the other side to stabilise them.
    To start I’d be looking at a simple air spring between the shoulder and bars like this http://www.camloc.com/product.asp?id=1 but a lot lower pressure.
    Yes a shoulder/elbow/wrist gives more options off the bike but look at what’s actually needed and to start I can’t see it being anymore than that?
    It should also make the shoulder attachment much easier as it’s only taking force in one direction.
    Comments?
    Anyone else?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    I like that idea Rikk I think the attachment to his shoulder is the difficult part – I don’t think he has anything left there at all.

    I guess he doesn’t need a cosmetic arm at all – just something to lean on under braking on that side so a strut with a clip onto the bars and a shock absorber between his shoulder and the bars sounds good

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Yep that’s why i thought this was the easiest solution, if you look to replicate a shoulder/elbow the twisting forces on the socket at the shoulder will be very hard to control, but with just a single point pushing back from the bars to the shoulder the only force you need to control is a backwards force which can easily be done with straps on the socket….grr it’s at times like this I wish I wasn’t so bloody useless at drawing as I can see it in my mind just can’t get it over.
    I’ll try and find a jpg of a shop dummy torso later and draw it on that.

    TN
    Free Member

    You guys are great. 🙂
    I am not sure what the prosthetist has come up with yet, but it sounds like it is similar to what Rikk has described – J’s next appointment isn’t until next week so we’ll let you know.
    There’s a photo above that gives you an idea what shape is left. Basically though, it’s just his ribcage with a layer of skin over it. That’s apparently the problem – there are no lumps or bumps to ‘secure’ anything to, so the strapping has to be around his torso quite firmly – but not so firmly he can’t breathe when he is riding.
    Where are you guys based – this sounds very much like it needs a night in the pub with beer and lots of paper and pencils… 🙂

    pjd
    Free Member

    if your going to a university, our penultimate year mechanical engineering project was a group (4 or 5) effort with 3 or 4 different projects in the year so there was atleast 4 or 5 other groups doing the same. Obviously this depends on the Uni’s curriculum

    I think something like that would be an excellent start, leaves scope for developing further and you may get a few workable solutions.

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Why not look at building it into something like this

    Also if the connection point is just below the collar bone the majority of forces would just be pushing against it or pulling away as it extends.
    Built into a torso protector like the one above it would spread the load evenly without it all going through one or two straps

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    TN – I am Edinburgh based. I am still pondering this and will post again if I come up with any more ideas

    Does he have anything left of the shoulder? Collarbone? / shoulder blade?

    I am guessing braking is the biggest issue – staying stable on the bike or does whatever “arm” attachment need to be able to be used for bracing in other directions?

    TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    If you contact me by email i would happily call the guy i mentioned earlier to talk to you. He already has a prosthetic riding arm designed for the job so will probably have quite a lot of relevant info. He is also the guy who has some rather neat solutions regarding braking systems etc.

    TN
    Free Member

    TJ – there’s nothing left of the shoulder – well, about an inch of collarbone but no shoulderblade. It was a biggie….

    The main need for stabilisation is indeed when braking and/or going downhill. It is difficult for him to shift his weight back easily and brake and remain stable/supported.
    I keep trying to work out ‘better’ riding positions for him – I know my ‘extra’ weight on the left means it’s not an accurate test, but it really is quite tricky to do it. I tend to shift left on my saddle and wedge my left knee into the cross tube with my right leg and pedal forward and ‘braced’, but it is a bit of an unnatural position to be in and is difficult to move easily from should you need to, while still going downhill. (does that make sense?)

    TN
    Free Member

    Rikk, we have motocross armour jacket which we thought we could maybe modify but it’s not ‘sturdy’ enough to work – we can look at others though.

    Another further spanner in the works is that because he has lost quite a large surface area that he can sweat from, he overheats more easily than he used to. So we have to be careful how much of the remaining surface gets covered, or there has to be lots of ventilation…
    (Not something we even considered until the surgeon pointed it out!!)

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Regarding the sweat issue, obviously drink lots but also pop something like nuun tablets in the water to replace the electrolytes, not sure if he’s tried one but buy a buff and wear it under the helmet it keeps you cooler and also stop the sweat dripping in your eye’s
    With regard to fixing, don’t try and fix something to where the shoulder used to be, try fixing to the pec muscle so the forces are pushing into the body.
    I found it’s easier to think about the problem working out whats needed to sort it rather than try to replicate how the body did it.
    When i finally get sorted with work I’ll draw something up.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    With regard to fixing, don’t try and fix something to where the shoulder used to be, try fixing to the pec muscle so the forces are pushing into the body.

    This is what I was thinking of – then it just needs to be secure enough not to slip rather than secure enough to hold all the forces.

    1LegRikk
    Free Member

    Yep thats the idea 🙂
    Very simple to then hold in place, so you have a small fiberglass plate over the pec to take the force and join the air spring to, coming off the plate you’d need two arms one to go around the side of the rib cage and 3-4 inches towards the spine and one going over the shoulder. If that is built in or attached to a nice open torso protector it will stay in place quite happily.
    Once he’s used that for a while you could experiment with another joint as an elbow and move from the air spring to cheap bike shock to pickup the movement at the elbow, as it would still effectivly just be pushing into the pec it should work just as well. The you can do funky things like having a shock with a platform on off so when cycling on relativly flat places you effectivly lock the shock out but when hitting the rough stuff turn off the platform damping for more movement.
    BUT, better to start off simple and add things as you go than aim for the sky and constantly fail, little steps see what works and build on them.

    TN
    Free Member

    J saw the prosthetists yesterday and here is riding arm #1.
    It consists of a modified shoulder cap with a socket in the 'shoulder joint' area.
    The arm clicks into that and locks.
    The elbow is a fixed but adjustable joint, lockable in about 5 different positions, so it is fairly manual but he can adjust it to be straighter when he's going downhill, or more bent/shorter for on the flat.
    The 'wrist' end clicks into a socket on the handlebar. I am not sure whether there is an 'emergency release' on this joint – I suspect not, and I'm not entirely happy if that's the case, but it's a prototype so we'll see.
    He has only ridden laps of the hospital carpark so far but we have a gentle ride planned for the weekend (prosthetists orders – nothing too testing!!) and I have orders from J to take lots of pics and to film him, so I will post them too.

    (problem posting picture – will try again…)

    TN
    Free Member
    rootes1
    Full Member

    back in the early 90's there was a chap that had a prosthetic arm made up for mtbing and it featured a titanium Girven Flex Stem (remember them) as the elbow..

    must be some pics somewhere.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Cool. I was wondering how he was getting on.

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Blue and green anodising? I hope later prototypes are more colour coordinated! I suggest black and gold.
    😉

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