First Aid kit contents suitable for major claret leakage..

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First Aid kit contents suitable for major claret leakage..

89 posts & 47 voices | Started 6 months ago by giddyp | Latest reply from budgierider67

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ditch_jockey - Member

Just shown this thread to Mrs FD who is an Orthopaedic/Trauma surgeon with Advanced Trauma Life Support training. She laughed at what most of you are carrying around, and nodded at what those with medical knowledge are suggesting

If she's happy to come and back that up in front of "InjuryLawyers4U", great, otherwise I stand by my earlier comments. I'm carrying what I was advised to carry by the paramedics who taught my REC2 first aid course. That way, if it all goes tits up in a bad way, my ass (and that of my employer) is covered on at least one front.

If Mrs FD has a sense of humour, you might pass on my niece's comment (she's in paediatrics) to the effect that "why would you listen to someone who practices medicine with a hammer and chisel" - she was grinning when she said it mind

Posted 6 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Anyone fancy sticking that kind of joint back together after a wee first aid course?

Posted 6 months ago #
ditch_jockey - Member

Anyone fancy sticking that kind of joint back together after a wee first aid course?

Not in that state!

Posted 6 months ago #
Pyro - Member

SBZ - "those with the skills on a professional level". I work as an event first aider for a commercial company, and tend to end up being on/helping teach four or five courses a year. Which category do you put me in?

It's an "each to their own" situation, really. I've had a bunch of trips whet I've needed nowt, then two weeks ago I ended up steri-stripping a cut to someone's forehead at the get in of a river trip when they got whacked in the bonce with a paddle while warming up. Not a major emergency, but head injuries bleed like a git and it was freaking her out. Couple of strips, ambulance dressing and Buff over it, helmet on and off we go. Like someone else said, the calming effect of someone having kit and the knowledge to use it can be pretty effective.

Oh, and no, I wouldn't fancy relocating a shoulder. We don't even relocate fingers. That way madness (and possibly litigation) lies. Have had training to do it on seriously remote expeditions, but bloody hope I never have to...

Posted 6 months ago #
crikey - Member

and possibly litigation
Exactly!

Again I'm reduced to boggling at the idea that anyone would attempt any kind of dislocation reduction while out on a trail...

If you're happy to recognise the difference between a dislocated hip and a fractured neck of femur through a pair of baggy shorts, or the difference between a high humeral fracture, or fracture-dislocation compared to a dislocated shoulder you are wasted...

The Golden Rule: If you can't fix it with duct tape, get some help.

Posted 6 months ago #
dr_death - Member

I wouldn't put that shoulder back.... it's in joint

Posted 6 months ago #
Pyro - Member

Litigation though, Crikey, only applies if you attempt something for which you have not been trained . The "Good Samaritan" law (can't remember the proper name) upholds that - so if I bandage a serious head wound (however badly!) And the person subsequently bleeds to death, i'd feel bad but could not be sued because it's in my training. If I attempt an emergency tracheotomy because I saw it on the telly once, I'd be off down the proverbial in my barbed wire kayak.

Posted 6 months ago #
Pyro - Member

(And no, I don't think I could recognise most of those things explicitly. Mostly it's the basic principles of first aid - keep 'em breathing, stop 'em bleeding and if it's serious enough to warrant it, get the big taxi with the blue lights on)

Posted 6 months ago #
freeagent - Member

Posted 6 months ago #
crikey - Member

True, but the injurious consequences of an attempted reduction of a dislocated shoulder should mean no-one should be attempting it outside a hospital setting, especially not in mainland UK, when the ambulance is presumably on its way.

The duct tape rule...

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Obviously if you have wider responsibilities / are dealing with kids / are going out into the wilds then a different take on things is not unreasonable.

however for most of us riding with friends not far from civilisation then there really is little that a first aid kit makes a significant difference. Minor injuries carry on, major injuries call in the experts / self evacuate.

In between that is a small amount of injuries where having the kit and the skills to use it could make a difference between continuing the ride and not or significantly alter outcomes/ comfort for the more serious injury.

Significant gravel rash say - can be much more comfortable under the right sort of dressing or being able to steristrip a cut up. Having the kit might mean you could carry on rather than cut the ride short. Once or twice I have done this sort of thing. However I don't often carry a first aid kit although when I do its fairly comprehensive.

The only time I regret not having the kit is when a mate broke his shoulder - and then only because I could have offered him some of the very strong painkillers I have in it when we were on the hours drive back to Edinburgh with him.

It is interesting that those with skills in the medical world are the ones who don't carry much first aid kit.

Posted 6 months ago #
Pyro - Member

Crikey - Agree with you completely on that! We'd done it in training for a multi-day remote kayaking trip abroad, where not only was there no closer medical support, there was naff-all chance of medical extraction. Shoulder dislocation is quite common in kayaking, so it was an assumed risk. Still wouldn't fancy doing it for real, though!

Posted 6 months ago #
crikey - Member

Reducing shoulders is quite hard work; I used to do it when I worked in theatre, under direct supervision of which ever consultant Orthopod was on call.

If it's that hard on sedated patients, I suspect it will be more so on awake, in pain, well muscled, kayakers...

Posted 6 months ago #
Pyro - Member

Takes a very long time, a helmet full of rocks and a roll of gaffer tape. Very little physical effort apart from restraining the pillock who dislocated their shoulder. Basically, slow application of traction. As I say, I wouldn't particularly want to do it, and I'd rather leave it to someone more qualified, but should push come to "alright you idiot, lie here and hold on while I tape this to your bad arm", i'd do it if I absolutely had to.

Posted 6 months ago #
blablablacksheep - Member

Just to add, if you do get head injuries it is a good idea to get some proper medical attention as im sure many who are professionals will agree.

By this i mean if you hit head hard enough to warrent DIY first aid, it worth getting it checked out....id rather smash my head and spend time cycling into A&E rather than spending time attaching a bandage and taking some drugs to null the pain of my braining swelling inside my skull

But seriously if we talking about taking all these complex medical devices and silly "self clotting agents" you really need to consider this...

Should you really be riding the way you are if you not taking part in a special event which has the proper medical care on standby

Posted 6 months ago #
Superficial - Member

Pyro, I would imagine that in Kayaking you're far more likely to get a dislocation without a fracture than you are compared with an impact sport like mountain biking, horse riding, motorcycles etc. On that basis it might be less unreasonable to put it back in whilst out on the river (particularly if you're miles from civilisation). It's a bit of a different risk/benefit equation when compared to mountain biking anyway.

Posted 6 months ago #
ditch_jockey - Member

Interesting choice from Google ads - I'm getting sports bras to help me post augmentation surgery

Posted 6 months ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

In between that is a small amount of injuries where having the kit and the skills to use it could make a difference between continuing the ride and not or significantly alter outcomes/ comfort for the more serious injury.

This is the major reason I carry a first aid kit. Bandages, a couple of wound pads, tape and scissors, some melonin and some 'spray plaster'

Mostly the things that get used to keep the ride going are the bandages - invariably on knees and elbows where movement occurs, and the the spray plaster - good for a temporary seal on flexible areas - again, mostly knees and elbows.

I had cause for a friend to use one of the bandages on my noggin the other month, but that was purely to stop the bleeding while we got off the hill and went to hospital.

Posted 6 months ago #
budgierider67 - Member

If you are gonna carry a splint, then these are fab;

http://www.sammedical.com/sam_splint.html

They make a nice seat when you don't want to get a wet arse too.

It you have a serious bleed and need compression then an Israeli bandage is very effective;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMRklQkfDLE

I use these at work fairly regularly and carry them occasionally when riding, depending on circumstances.
I usually just have assorted plasters, tape and a small dressing.

Posted 6 months ago #

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