[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

So we seem to have slipped seamlessly from disaster to farce?
I'd say that with every passing minute of this ridiculous Charade, Boris's goal of being handed the keys to number ten becomes less and less likely

Not exactly what I'd call statesman like....

He's completely out of his depth!

What % of FTSE are $ earners, £ costs - not too surprising. But a relief nonetheless

The slow painful drip of uncertainty is more of a worry. I have several projects on hold now. 🙁

As you were then.

Mind you... the labour party now gets to dump Jezza and get a new (more electable?) leader.

Has the Tory party just properly ****ed itself? 😆

Cool, it WAS just a bad dream then. Could you imagine being daft enough to leave the EU!

So we seem to have slipped seamlessly from disaster to farce?

I like Boris's article:

"I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be."

"There will still be intense and intensifying European co-operation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment."

"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU."

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market."

"The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal."

Nothing much will change. Who'd have thought?

I never thought I would ever say these words, but....

Thank god for George Osbourne! 😯

His statement this morning might as well have started with 'Right... step aside you bunch of bloody clowns! You've had your fun. Time to let the grown ups get back to business!"

+1 for binners comment

Glad Osbourne has decided to stay and work through it. We need him now, more than ever!

Like a hole in the head...

The real, important question is: when to buy my Canadian currency? I'm thinking as soon as possible.

I'm thinking last Thursday.

It looks like bojo is still keen on removing human rights, at least he will keep one promise.

Seeing as they clearly don't apply to most of our lizard overlords in the Tory party, perhaps he thinks that's fair enough.

So the real questions is , in this hour of our countries need, who is the Tories current John Major ?

I'm not even sure the Tories have anyone [i]that[/i] beige in their ranks. What about the bloke who claimed expenses for cleaning his duck's drawbridge?

The question of where's Osbourne? That I heard a few times Friday/over the weekend was answered too

Working his blooming socks off by the sound of things... nice game of cricket Boris?

If he thinks the economy can just hibernate for 4 months while the tories sort themselves out and develop a plan and some leadership, he's going to get a bit of a surprise.

I hadn't seen this prediction by Nick Clegg before the referendum

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/

He's completely out of his depth!

I'd completely agree to that statement, but then reckon anybody trying to get to grips with the last few days would be the same. CMD has played a blinder (finally)in creating this 3 month window of dust settling, which will allow everyone to work a few things out. Just not great for business as THM alluded. 🙁

They didn't like the austerity cuts.

Its a big factor in Eurosceptism in Europe, the rules of the euro (ignired by Greece of course) is to set a debt / gdp ratio so many (eg French) blame euro for their austerity cuts

Personally I am concerned there will be a dodge so I'd rather see article 50 triggered immediately as I am also happy for no trade deal if thats the way it goes. Article 50 prevents younsigning a trade deal with a non-EU country but I would get on and line them up with say Japan and South Korea for cars (especially electric, we are good at creative engineering) put some pressure on Germany not least as they have an election in 2017

ECJ/ECHR withdrawl should have been done last year but Cameron was well aware that the EU would block it ("refer it for discussion ... ie bury it in bureaucracy) and thus be another big weakness in the Remain case. Its time for a UK Bill of Rights with the UK courts being the final arbiter

I'd say that with every passing minute of this ridiculous Charade, Boris's goal of being handed the keys to number ten becomes less and less likely

Every cloud...

So feeling betrayed yet Jambalaya?

ECJ/ECHR withdrawl should have been done last year

Personally I'd say at this time of massive upheaval we need the guiding principles of Human Rights more than ever. 😕

[i]It looks like bojo is still keen on removing human rights, at least he will keep one promise. [/i]

I'm still confused about why this has anything to do with the EU, anyone able to confirm?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

Jammers - you are Bill Cash and I claim my 3 pound, 2 Shillings and sixpence!

😆

Ro5ey, thanks for the updates from the sharp end - nice to get some actual information input to the thread 🙂

ECJ/ECHR withdrawl should have been done last year

Possibly because leaving the ECHR would probably tear up the Good Friday agreement. I doubt any politician wants to be handed that awful mess if it happened.

He's completely out of his depth!

TBH, I don't think we've had a PM who can handle it since Blair. Not that I'm endorsing his actions, but he could operate at that level.

Considering three banks - RBS, Lloyds and Barc are down @30% since the result, its a good job we have some $ earners in the FTSE (and that my UK equity investments are all passive index ones). F250 faring worse -3%

Now just have to work out distressed values on banks - when to have a little nibble!!!

Its a big factor in Eurosceptism in Europe, the rules of the euro (ignired by Greece of course) is to set a debt / gdp ratio so many (eg French) blame euro for their austerity cuts

IIRC you are a supporter of debt consolidation Jambas?

UK courts being the final arbiter

It's ok, the result is in the bag, this stuff does not need to continue. Even Bojo is back on track with the Remain case now.

A load of old unnecessary bllx to produce basically the same ends. What a crock...

Every cloud...

I am also happy for no trade deal if thats the way it goes.

Article 50 prevents younsigning a trade deal with a non-EU country

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

. Its time for a UK Bill of Rights with the UK courts being the final arbiter

Legally , in that scenario MPs' could change the law and abolish voting for example. Plenty of dictators did it "legally".
Its terrible that an act and laws we gave to the world are something that we can no longer adhere to

how the mighty UK has fallen to the stupid , the Right wing and the racist.

Personally I am concerned there will be a dodge so I'd rather see article 50 triggered immediately

Excellent. Further proof you have no ****ing clue. Seriously, which countries do you think would put a small country with no links to any other and facing mass exodus of the companies that used to call it home particularly high on their list of trade deal priorities?

as I am also happy for no trade deal if thats the way it goes.

See above

Article 50 prevents younsigning a trade deal with a non-EU country but I would get on and line them up with say Japan and South Korea for cars (especially electric, we are good at creative engineering) put some pressure on Germany not least as they have an election in 2017

Also see above, if this is rushed, the companies that would make us most attractive to other countries will have ****ed off to somewhere inside the EU where they can service the very large market there without trade restrictions.

ECJ/ECHR withdrawl should have been done last year but Cameron was well aware that the EU would block it ("refer it for discussion ... ie bury it in bureaucracy) and thus be another big weakness in the Remain case.

I'm still missing any cogent argument on this one. We're still subject to the ICJ in any case, unless you think we just voted to leave planet earth. You really have not thought this through very far.

Its time for a UK Bill of Rights

Quite possibly, but again, this has **** all to do with the EU. I do have a suggestion for it though: it should remove the right for deluded muppets to spout shite. That would have prevented this problem a long time ago. It would also have put an end to your facetious waffle.

with the UK courts being the final arbiter

See above re: ICJ

Just seen my daughter and a couple of her friends for coffee in town.

One of the girls was going on about how unfair the outcome was, and how older people had voted out and younger people would have to live with the consequences, etc.

I asked how she had voted.... She confessed that she had been too busy

Laugh, I nearly shat! 😆

🙄

Equity maybe quiet but Currency moving

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=12h

Updated from Mike's earlier post ... down 2 cents... A 2 cent move on any normal day is HUGE

The flight into "quality" see Gilts better so yield drops to 1% for the first time on record.... hence the weak pound ... seen calls for as low as 1.20 v usd.

I'm going to the US in 4 weeks' time. What can I do except not spend any money whilst there?

My sons were dismayed at the relatively low level of turnout among their age group. Older one "they have no one to blame but themselves."

Some v down youngsters among their immediate peers especially the recent graduates. Had to chip into Facetime call with son's girlfriend (Ist class honours, modern languages) last night to stop the tears and re-assure her on the transferrable nature of her skills. There was/is a real down mood for this group.

Tell her to get some business skills and then go and work for the Civil service; they need some trade negotiators sharpish.

I asked how she had voted.... She confessed that she had been too busy

That's pretty pathetic. 🙁

I guess there is a (pretty minor) point there in that a retired pensioner has all day to toddle down to the polling station, whereas someone working a long day shift might not have that luxury, hence one of the reasons we see a skewed turnout of old folk in all elections and referendums.

No excuse though - it's not hard to sort out a postal vote.

I am sure she had time to sign an internet petiton and share it on facebook. Graham, yes it is sad but its well known (plus you have halfwits like Russell Brand telling kids not to vote), it is also true that older people appreciate the importance of a free vote in a democracy whereas the young do not and are fed a diet of leftwing claptrap that its all pointless as the elite control everything - so they don't bother

Zokes we are the 5th largest economy in the world and Germany's third largest export market for cars for example. Too many people are focused on population numbers as a proxy for trading importance. The small country mentality of the Remainers was a factor in their loss.

@molgrips probably do some busking or something, chance to earn some proper money

Just enjoy yourself mol - dont do the FX calc, just have a normal holiday

Wonder how the older OUTers feel now about the returns on their pensions Ro5ey - not that I expect that they thought that far.

Conversation with neighbourly 80 year-old OUTer yesterday. "I never expected to actually win. Why didnt anyone tell me that this was all BS?"....the bite marks on my lip were pretty severe at this point 😯

The small country mentality of the Remainers was a factor in their loss.

No really.... 😯

Today I want to reassure the British people, and the global community, that Britain is ready to confront what the future holds for us from a position of strength.
That is because in the last six years the Government and the British people have worked hard to rebuild the British economy.
We have worked systematically through a plan that today means Britain has the strongest major advanced economy in the world.
Growth has been robust. The employment rate is at a record high. The capital requirements for banks are ten times what they were.
And the budget deficit has been brought down from 11% of national income, and was forecast to be below 3% this year.
I said we had to fix the roof so that we were prepared for whatever the future held. Thank goodness we did.
As a result, our economy is about as strong as it could be to confront the challenge our country now faces.
That challenge is clear.
On Thursday, the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. That is not the outcome that I wanted or that I threw everything into campaigning for.
But Parliament agreed that there are issues of such constitutional significance that they cannot solely be left to politicians, and must be determined by the people in a referendum.
Now the people have spoken and we, in this democracy, must all accept that result and deliver on their instructions.
I don’t resile from any of the concerns I expressed during the campaign, but I fully accept the result of the referendum and will do everything I can to make it work for Britain.
It is inevitable, after Thursday’s vote, that Britain’s economy is going to have to adjust to the new situation we find ourselves in.
In the analysis that the Treasury and other independent organisations produced, three particular challenges were identified – and I want to say how we meet all three.
First, there is the volatility we have seen and are likely to continue to see in financial markets.
Those markets may not have been expecting the referendum result – but the Treasury, the Bank of England, and the Financial Conduct Authority have spent the last few months putting in place robust contingency plans for the immediate financial aftermath in the event of this result.
We and the PRA have worked systematically with each major financial institution in recent weeks to make sure they were ready to deal with the consequences of a vote to leave.
Swap lines were arranged in advance so the Bank of England is now able to lend in foreign currency if needed.
As part of those plans, the Bank and we agreed that there would be an immediate statement on Friday morning from the Governor, Mark Carney.
As Mark made clear, the Bank of England stands ready to provide £250 billion of funds, through its normal facilities, to continue to support banks and the smooth functioning of markets.
And we discussed our co-ordinated response with other major economies in calls on Friday with the Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors of the G7.
The Governor and I have been in regular touch with each other over the weekend – and I can say this this morning: we have further well-thought-through contingency plans if they are needed.
In the last 72 hours I have been in contact with fellow European finance ministers, central bank governors, the managing director of the IMF, the US Treasury Secretary and the Speaker of Congress, and the CEOs of some of our major financial institutions so that collectively we keep a close eye on developments.
It will not be plain sailing in the days ahead.
But let me be clear. You should not underestimate our resolve.
We were prepared for the unexpected.
We are equipped for whatever happens.
And we are determined that unlike eight years ago, Britain’s financial system will help our country deal with any shocks and dampen them – not contribute to those shocks or make them worse.
The second challenge our analysis identified in advance was the uncertainty that a vote to leave would bring in the coming months and beyond as Britain worked with its European allies to create a new relationship.
The Prime Minister has given us time as a country to decide what that relationship should be by delaying the decision to trigger the Article 50 procedure until there is a new Prime Minister in place for the autumn.
Only the UK can trigger Article 50, and in my judgement we should only do that when there is a clear view about what new arrangement we are seeking with our European neighbours.
In the meantime, and during the negotiations that will follow, there will be no change to people’s rights to travel and work, and to the way our goods and services are traded, or to the way our economy and financial system is regulated.
However, it is already evident that as a result of Thursday’s decision, some firms are continuing to pause their decisions to invest, or to hire people.
As I said before the referendum, this will have an impact on the economy and the public finances – and there will need to be action to address that.
Given the delay in triggering Article 50 and the Prime Minister’s decision to hand over to a successor, it is sensible that decisions on what that action should consist of should wait for the OBR to assess the economy in the autumn, and for the new Prime Minister to be in place.
But no one should doubt our resolve to maintain the fiscal stability we have delivered for this country.
To all companies large and small I would say this: the British economy is fundamentally strong, we are highly competitive and we are open for business.
The third and final challenge I spoke of was that of ensuring that Britain was able to agree a long-term economic relationship with the rest of Europe that provided for the best possible terms of trade in goods and services.
Together, my colleagues in the Government, the Conservative Party and in Parliament will have to determine what those terms should be – and we’ll have to negotiate with our European friends to agree them.
I intend to play an active part in that debate – for I want this great trading nation of ours to put in place the strongest possible economic links with our European neighbours,
with our close friends in North America and the Commonwealth, and our important partners like China and India.
I do not want Britain to turn its back on Europe or the rest of the world.
We must bring unity of spirit and purpose and condemn hatred and division wherever we see it.
Britain is an open and tolerant country and I will fight with everything I have to keep it so.
Today I am completely focussed on the task in hand as Chancellor of the Exchequer to bring stability and reassurance.
There will be questions about the future of the Conservative Party, and I will address my role within that in the coming days.
In conclusion, the British people have given us their instructions.
There is much to do to make it work.
We start from a position of hard-won strength.
And whatever the undoubted challenges, my colleagues and I are determined to do the best for Britain.

So, the grown ups took some steps in advance. A bloody good job, too.

Bear in mind, though, that we have tried to torpedo our own economy - there will be hard times ahead, but at least someone had the sense to try to mitigate this lunacy.

Boris probably needs to buy George a beer.

Some v down youngsters among their immediate peers especially the recent graduates. Had to chip into Facetime call with son's girlfriend (Ist class honours, modern languages) last night to stop the tears and re-assure her on the transferrable nature of her skills. There was/is a real down mood for this group.

But it's only because they don't know a world where the UK is outside of the EU, so are scared. Talk to older folk and they aren't so bothered, in fact an older out supporter was telling me on the day of the election how they'd worked in France as a youngster and didn't see how leaving the EU would make a difference to working aboad if you had skills to offer. Lets face it plenty of UK folk end up in Australia, Middle East, US etc. none who have such easy entry policies.

jambalaya - Member
we are the 5th largest economy in the world

Are we still, this not needing reviewed? 😆

And George should leave it on the table....wise words though

Sleazyjet getting a pasting today and emergency measures being considered to prop up Italy's f**cked banks. So the surface calm is not all it seems....

Zokes we are the 5th largest economy in the world
#jambyfacts....6th since we voted to leave,now behind France.

Talk to older folk and they aren't so bothered, in fact an older out supporter was telling me on the day of the election how they'd worked in France as a youngster and didn't see how leaving the EU would make a difference to working aboad if you had skills to offer. Lets face it plenty of UK folk end up in Australia, Middle East, US etc. none who have such easy entry policies.

For those saying it was all fine not always been in the EU, what was it like back then?

Jamby article 50 - I think I just got your error for this m[s]orning[/s]illenumium. Care to engage or are you just going to plow on regardless of the fatcs?

But it's only because they don't know a world where the UK is outside of the EU, so are scared.

True

Talk to older folk and they aren't so bothered,

Quite 😯

in fact an older out supporter was telling me on the day of the election how they'd worked in France as a youngster and didn't see how leaving the EU would make a difference to working aboad if you had skills to offer.

they had many odd views on top of this too

Lets face it plenty of UK folk end up in Australia, Middle East, US etc. none who have such easy entry policies.

But if you have majored in German and Spain for a particular reason and career path, worked very hard and earned an excellent degree you are understandably pissed off. But as we bot agree, the skills are transferable and she can move on. Unlike the Turkeys.....

[I]Zokes we are the 5th largest economy in the world [/I]

6th now..., and how long before India passes us and we're 7th?

It looks like bojo is still keen on removing human rights, at least he will keep one promise.

I'm still confused about why this has anything to do with the EU, anyone able to confirm?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

I still don't understand why this is a thing? I would love to hear someone's story where human rights has adversely and detrimentally effected them. I personally quite like the thought that I have the right not to be tortured when I walk down the street. The right to freedom of expression and liberty. The right to VOTE and be part of a DEMOCRACY!

All I have to say on all of this is that world has gone ****** mental.