I’ve always been heavily built. Back in my 20s I trained like a nut job and weighed 92kg at 1.83m tall, giving me a BMI that categorized me as over weight. I always laughed. It was not the case.

Life changes and I no longer train like I used to. My weight went up to 110kg recently and since January I’m now back down to 102kg, which is great.

I’ve actually done this all once before, up at 110kg, then down to 99kg. That was three years ago and the weight came back on, so it’s how to keep it off that I need help with.

Both times success has come through reducing intake to between 1500 and 1800 calories per day. What I need to know is this:

– How realistic is it to get down to below 90kg given that even when I was training five times a week for two hours a time and I was in my 20s I was heavier than this?

– Does your base metabolic rate require less calories the less you weigh? I’m managing to limit intake to 1500 but it’s really hard and I never feel satisfied after meals. I’m hoping it gets easier!

Thanks for your thoughts.

geetee – up until a point there’s some good stuff in here from everybody: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/race-weight

The book is good as well as it explains a lot of what you are asking. Include much on satiety, basically cured by eating a high fruit, veg protien and wholemeal content – aka “clean” food.

geetee1972- it is realistic to get to below 90kg. The way I look at it is this – there are 9000kcal in 1Kg of fat. A couple of hours of cycling burns off roughly 1500kcal and half and hours run burns off 500kcal. So you need to reduce your calorie intake and increase your exercise dramtically and for a long time to lose the kind of weight you’re trying to lose, but it is possible.

You’re also trying to get your stomach to shrink back to a size that is more appropriate to your desired weight. The only reason you feel hungry is because your stomach isnt getting stretched so you dont feel full.

I’m trying to lose 20kg to take me from 93kg to 73kg. I’ve lost 5kg in a fortnight through not eating junk and exercising hard every day for at least an hour. It’s hard work, but I feel fantastic for it. I do appreciate that others will not be able to tolerate my extreme approach. I’m 1.86m.

Alright fella.

I think experience shows that your not going to be able to continue to restrict your intake to 1800 calories – it smacks a bit of crash dieting. To get to and sustain a lower weight you need to change the way you eat in general.

There have been about a billion threads on this on here and there are many things you can try: paleo, iDave, fasting, whatever, but you need to find something that works for you and by that I men something that fits easily into you and your family’s lifestyles.

FWIW, I’m 1.85m and have dropped from (checks sad little spreadsheet) 91.5kg to 84kg since late October. That’s with very little ‘dieting’, the way I do it is:

– Mon, Weds, Fri: Coffee when I get up, muesli at work about 2 hrs after getting up, sarnie and apple kind of thing for lunch, something decent for dinner. No snacks, no booze
– Tues, Thurs: on the bike for about an hour before work, no breakfast, otherwise as above
– Weekends: whatever I want to eat/drink. hopefully a decent ride or two.

It works as there’s little difference between it and what I was doing before, there’s little willpower needed (and there’s some pseudo-science about functioning/trainign on an empty stomach)

– Does your base metabolic rate require less calories the less you weigh?

Yes.

How realistic is it to get down to below 90kg given that even when I was training five times a week for two hours a time and I was in my 20s I was heavier than this?

sub 90kg at 1.83m tall sound perfectly realistic. But i’d be tempted to make it a long term goal. Get yourself down to something that you’re reasonably happy with then look to slowing the diet down a bit so that the last couple of kilo’s are lost over a matter of months. This should help you adjust to a healthy and sustainable eating pattern.

1,500 kcal per day is not very much at all, especially if you are doing any exercise (riding?) be sure to add a bit on to make up for extra calories burnt during exercise.

How realistic is it to get down to below 90kg

very. Unless you keep telling yourself otherwise. How much of the muscle you had back then do you still have? Get a few measurements/guesstimates of your body-fat percentage and see what sort of lean weight you could be looking at then set your goal appropriately.

do you eat clean ?

clean food generally has less calories than heavily processed food.

cans of coke , chocolate, crisps and beer ….. all contribute heavily.

im 1.87 and when racing and eating uber clean i was as low as 68kg.

currently 80kg right now.

its not a diet its a lifestyle.

I hear the comments about lifestyle not diet. That resonates and makes a lot of sense.

Trail Rat, we do generally eat clean, although not quite as clean as we used to since we now have two Rug Rats and full time jobs! There are a few corners being cut, but in general it’s still pretty good (those things you mention rarely if ever feature).

Regarding getting under 92kg, yes, this is something of a mental block for me from a logical perspective, but the point made about not carrying as much muscle as I did before is a good one and helps me realise that the parameters I’m using are not as extreme as I think they are.

Back then I was doing Karate training five times a week and, much as I miss it now, I was pretty ripped and muscular. It’s all a distant memory now sadly!

INH – good to hear from you. I like your anecdotes as they give some crumb of comfort. Some days it feels like it’s not so much a diet, more just not eating and snacking on the rubbish.

Thanks everyone; all really helpful comments and insights.

if your not karate’ing which imo would give you a good all over workout and you need all the muscle you carried for it – then thats a good reason for not getitng below 92.

if your not doing it now and just cycling then youll find your upperbody shrinks to accomodate it.

your body generally is an amaizingly adaptive machine and its alarming how quick it can adapt once it realises your just going to beat it into submission till it does.

does anyone think that the body comes to weight that it is happy with?
and no matter what you do, short of starvation, weightloss stops.
i have gone from 23 stone to 18ish stone since march last year.
no matter what i do, i cant get under 18 stone. is this my kinda default weight?

Does your base metabolic rate require less calories the less you weigh?

Yup. Light people need fewer calories and if you want to continue losing weight you have to eat less and exercise more.

In terms of nutrition, ask yourself if you’d eat this if you were a wild animal. If not, it’s not food

eat less, move more. eat something that’s been sitting on the kitchen side for a few days, I had a stomach bug last week and dropped 11 or 12 pounds in just a few hours 😥

How realistic is it to get down to below 90kg

Impossible to tell.

Get your body fat measured, that’s your starting point. Failing that, post up some pictures of your torso 🙂

does anyone think that the body comes to weight that it is happy with?

Yes, the body resists losing fat more the more you lose, cos it wants to preserve some. How much depends on a complex set of like 20 hormones that are all at different levels and sensitivities in different people.

ask yourself if you’d eat this if you were a wild animal

If I were a wild animal I’d eat whatever the hell I could stuff down my face, and die at the age of 35 probably.

“does anyone think that the body comes to weight that it is happy with?
and no matter what you do, short of starvation, weightloss stops.
i have gone from 23 stone to 18ish stone since march last year.
no matter what i do, i cant get under 18 stone. is this my kinda default weight? “

thats not possible if there is a calorie deficit.

remember the calorie deficit numbers will be different to when you weighed 23 stone …..

thats not possible if there is a calorie deficit.

Calories in vs calories out. The thing is that calories out is not fixed. BMR can vary, as can your ability to exercise.

So as you eat less and move more, you find it harder and harder to exercise and not eat. Eventually you’d feel really run down all the time and be useless on the bike.

It may technically be possible for ton to be 8st but it sure as hell won’t be desirable.

it requires more effort to track thats for sure but its not impossible – thats why good pro cyclists have people to track it for them 😉

if your moving more you need to eat more. the idea is to maintain a deficit. you cant eat at your BMR and do 100 miles a day…..well you can ….just dont expect to feel good tomorrow….

there was how ever a time where i was doing 500km a weekend over summer and strugling to keep weight on. – couldnt physically cram the calories down my neck in the form on good food.

under 90kg…..

lets imagine your lean body mass is 88kg and as you currently tip the scales at 102, you are carrying 14kg of fat, 14% BF give or take a gnats wotnot..

now have a look at some pics
http://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/

and see if you are above or below that 14% mark – if you are pretty much on the money, you are going to really struggle to get to 90kg, never mind below, barring a lot of muscle wastage.

there was how ever a time where i was doing 500km a weekend over summer and strugling to keep weight on. – couldnt physically cram the calories down my neck in the form on good food.

Yeah but we are all pretty different. It’s almost like comparing people to dogs to horses to birds, just a bit less severe 🙂

thats not possible if there is a calorie deficit.

remember the calorie deficit numbers will be different to when you weighed 23 stone …..

today i have eaten,
a 3 egg omlette with a small tin of mackeral
1 pot of tomato soup

not many calories at all….. 🙂

and see if you are above or below that 14% mark – if you are pretty much on the money, you are going to really struggle to get to 90kg, never mind below, barring a lot of muscle wastage.

Soobilas that’s pretty interesting. I guess that when I weighed 92kg then I was probably somewhere between 12 and 15% body fat. I never had a six pack, at least not as well defined as in those pictures, but I wasn’t far off.

I must now be somewhere around 25%.

“a 3 egg omlette with a small tin of mackeral
1 pot of tomato soup

not many calories at all”

good lord

i said deficit not starvation.

dont you find your self lacking energy and motivation at that intake.

I must now be somewhere around 25%.

IME you can get down to 14-16% quite easily with a clean-ish diet and exercise. I don’t think you really need to think about doing anything special until you are at least at this stage.

It should also be fairly easy for most people (blokes) to get down to 9-10% but you will probably have to make a special effort with regards to eating and exercising. The “Racing Weight” book mentioned above makes what IMO is a good point in that all athletes should be resistance (weight) training as this will change their body composition (i.e. more muscle, less fat) but not necessarily their weight. However the more muscle you have the easier it is to get lean (very simply because you will be expending more calories when you exercise).

good lord

i said deficit not starvation.

that is the kind of diet i have stuck to for the last 10 month to lose the weight.
do you reckon i need to be eating a bit more?

By the way those pictures seem to be of people who have been in the gym. If you are cyclist your upper body probably will never look like that, so it’s a bit misleading.

The Four Hour Body also contains pictures like that but shows several people at the same bf percentage, they look quite different.

The “Racing Weight” book mentioned above makes what IMO is a good point in that all athletes should be resistance (weight) training

I may have to read this.. I have no idea what to do in the gym on those machines.

do you reckon i need to be eating a bit more?

If you get stuck, eating more might allow you to exercise harder and therefore lose more weight. It did for me, but I guess that might not work for you!

IME you can get down to 14-16% quite easily with a clean-ish diet and exercise.

The GI of the calories you eat is very important, as we’ve discussed on here a lot.

Ton – is that all you’re eating? Or are you having bread with stuff? It’s the little bits that folk dont realise they’re eating that boosts the calorie count.

ive never had a 6 pack – but i have been below 10% BF.

BUT i litterally had veins sticking out my thighs, calves and arms

looked like a junky – but boy could i climb.

ton it depends how you feel , even at my weight if i only ate that i would be lethargic and unable to exercise – if you cannot exercise then not eating is only going to get your so far before you plateau.

George, i have eggs for breakfast in some form.
soup for lunch, or chickpeas with tuna.
and chicken, fish or lean meat with veg or salad for tea.

no bread or rice or pasta or buns or biscuits or dairy or fruit……..god i hate this diet 😐

If you don’t do it already (and are up to it) I think some resistance training would definitely help. Not only will you burn calories whilst doing it but it will increase your BMR. Changing your routine might also give your body a kick up the arse!

Also IMO the worst thing you can do (if you are active) is not eat enough.

“Also IMO the worst thing you can do (if you are active) is not eat enough.”

is where i was going with that.

agressive diets are for those that cannot be active.

if your active you need to feed the engine in order to keep being active.

cut the fuel too much , the engine cuts out and you end up trapped in a cant be active , cant burn fuel cycle.

ton – Member
George, i have eggs for breakfast in some form.
soup for lunch, or chickpeas with tuna.
and chicken, fish or lean meat with veg or salad for tea.

no bread or rice or pasta or buns or biscuits or dairy or fruit……..god i hate this diet

Yeah that sounds like a fun lifestyle.

Yeah that sounds like a fun lifestyle.

So, bread, biscuits, buns, etc are lifestyle defining, Fun ?.

Zilog, Trail rat.
Are you running caloric deficits though ?.
(genuine Q)

geetee1972 – Member
…. it’s really hard and I never feel satisfied after meals. I’m hoping it gets easier!

ton – Member
…. god i hate this diet

Neither of you will sustain this.

You need to find a way to lose/maintain weight and eat satisfying meals. If not, this time next year all that weight will be back on.

Higgo.

I think Ton may be having a bit of a laugh.
Ton has achieved significant weight loss and he’s had to do that mostly through diet as high intensity exercise has not been an option.
So in Ton, we see evidence that significant weight loss is possible through changes in diet.
Though ideally, its a combo of both diet and exercise. Obviously.

I’m just curious about peoples views / experiences on caloric deficit / balance.

Zilog, Trail rat.
Are you running caloric deficits though ?.
(genuine Q)

Actually I would be interested to know the answer to this myself! I can never seem to manage to use MFP for more than a day as, despite doing a lot of exercise, I am at heart a very lazy person 🙂

I will try my hardest to do it for a solid week or two though. After iDave-ing at the start of last year I eased off when I reached my then target weight and approx 15% BF. Have maintained till now without trouble and without counting calories, so probably calorie neutral.

However since start of Jan I’ve decided to try to get down to approx 10% BF and have been losing weight gradually. My lifts have been increasing slowly too which is my crude method of determining that I’m losing fat not muscle mass. This and the fact that I’m sticking quite strictly to clean eating and also eating low-carb during the week leads me to assume that I am indeed in a calorie deficit but as you say it would be interesting to know for sure.

At 2k cals a day on my commute i hope so 😉

I dont actively try these days as im not racing and just riding for pleasure how ever i dont eat too badly when im in the uk although i dropped over a stone eating tuna bread cheese and mars bars for 1 month.

Zilog

Ime if you train hard below 10% you seem to pick up every illness going

Ended up sticking between 10-12% but as molgrips says everyones different.

although i dropped over a stone eating tuna bread cheese and mars bars for 1 month.

Links to that diet lifestyle please 8)

Its called buy a ticket to turkmenistan and see if you can stomach the local food …. It was either eat that or poop my self thin.

I’m sure it’s covered elsewhere on this forum but the intermittent calorie restriction is working well in our house. Easier to sustain if you know you can have a bit of what you fancy tomorrow.

Zilog

Ime if you train hard below 10% you seem to pick up every illness going

Ended up sticking between 10-12% but as molgrips says everyones different.I have heard people say this anecdotally before although I’m sure it can’t be true as most pro athletes must be under 10% surely? Is there any link between fat mass and immune function? I would have thought as long as you get enough vitamins/minerals/calories you would be OK? I definitely think that a lot of pro-cyclists/distance runners can be so thin they look sickly & unhealthy, this is not what I am going for though!