There are many roles in business which are equally important.
I'm pointing out that in your industry the people who make the deals to build the products which keep you employed, will be suited & booted.
However, a company with excellent sales & marketing and a poor product will do well; whereas an excellent product with bad sales & marketing will get completely nowhere.
However, a company with excellent sales & marketing and a poor product will do well; whereas an excellent product with bad sales & marketing will get completely nowhere.
I see it the other way around, its the people who make the products and deliver the services that keep the suited and booted deal makers in employment.
Good products sell themselves, sales and marketing can only go so far when the products are bad, get a bad reputation and no sales team will save you.
Why does one have to be more important than the other? No wonder companies have to spend a fortune on team building exercises. Neither is more important than the other but you both need each other for the company to function. The sooner you understand the other side and get on, the better for everyone. It's not a competition, you work for the same team...
I see it the other way around, its the people who make the products and deliver the services that keep the suited and booted deal makers in employment
Not really.
You need both, much as it would pain most of us to admit it. The best products ever sometimes die because of lack of market support. Betamax was technically better than VHS IIRC.
Betamax was technically better than VHS IIRC.
If they don't provide them and it is required at work you should be able to claim a very small amount against tax. I get my shoes offset against tax IIRC
Ooooh - TJ's wrong! (although this isn't a dig as it's a common misconception). In order to claim an item as tax deductable, it has to be "solely and necessary for [your work]".
I.e. I could claim for a (replacement) stethoscope, but not suit, tie, shoes, or uniform, as I could wear it out of work...
DrP
MSP, I've been on both sides.
Here's a thought experiment.
Let A invest in & build a fantastic product and put it on a shelf.
Don't tell anyone about it (that's sales & marketing)
Let B build something that's only half as good, but invest in literature, salespeople, publicity.
After 3 months, who has the revenue?
I agree that all other things being equal you need a great product & service - but the sales process HAS to be there.
I'm pointing out that even in the space idustry which you think is pure and bullshit-free, there is a need for the suit & tie to bring in your wages.
As a rufty-tufty technical person the number of days I've had to spend wearing a suit for work have been very limited (confined mainly to a 1 month rotation to the office during my apprenticeship and a six month secondment to a office based project (that wasn't every day either). I have to say I quite liked wearing a tie, you can express yourself a bit if you know what you're doing. If a shirt and tie is uncomfortable - you probably have the wrong sized collar.
If I had the luxury of sitting around a nice clean air conditioned office, the least I could do was make the effort of a bit of sartorial elegance, though I don't think the girls in the office gave much of a toss.
I work in a school that's a bit alternative. Kids wear what they want and whilst some of them do a damn good job of creating themselves a uniform of their own there are also some pretty eccentric dressers out there which the rest of the school really value for their individuality. No piss taking. I dress in jeans and a casual shirt or tee shirt most days and occasionally jazz it up with a smarter pair of jeans and a jacket and my least worse shirt if I've got visitors or parents to meet. The kids also call the staff by the first name but that's by the by in the context of the thread.
I spent 10yrs in state education having to tell kids off for not having their ties the right length, not doing their top buttons up and tucking their shirts in - it seemed to be a constant battle. I frequently got bollocked by senior management for the state of dress of the sprogs in my charge. Thinking about it now from a distance it seems pathetic, especially considering how many of you lot don't wear ties in the work place. If boys are to be encouraged to be boys in their spare time and actually run around a bit I'd almost consider them a health hazard by current standards. Who didn't get peanutted good n' proper at some point as a kid?
After 5 years of not wearing a tie to work I'd find it hard to go back - I didn't even wear one to my own wedding.
It's casual here, but really frigging warm so I really would love to wear shorts. Some folk do, but not enough so I feel comfortable. However if it gets much hotter I'll have to play the 'women are allowed to wear whatever they want' card.
@Mol - might wanna check your contract for your proposed new job ...
To be honest I am looking forward to ties coming back into fashion
I simply cannot take a fellow seriously if they don't dress appropriately..
The bullshit tie-wearing thing annoys me to, luckily they're optional (unless meeting clients) where I work. In fact I found out a couple of years ago our corpo policy was less restrictive (polo shirts ok etc.) so I adhere to the corpo policy not the UK policy, which winds the HR harpies up. One guy turning up in a rugby shirt recently didn't go down too well though (policy basically just states a shirt with a collar :p ).
shirt, unbuttoned down to just above the belly button, massive chest wig. sorted.
shorts, tattoos on each leg of arrows pointing up towards your groin saying "stop imagining my penis"
clients will be so impressed at finally dealing with a real man they wont notice you're not wearing a tie.
Are Nike 6.0's a No no?
Thetiepolo shirt says 'I conform.'My day to day work wear is a polo shirt, which is standard fare for our engineers
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