Hankering for a long travel hardtail have owned a 456 and an mmmbop but went to full suss now fancy one of these but which one? Plan to run a Revelation 150mm travel fork. Mostly for ripping singletrack with the capability for reasonable climbing would hope to aim for sub 27lb when complete. Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks

Dont bother.

If you want to build a LT hardtail do it properly. Build it up with the strongest parts you can buy and use it for what its intended for i.e. downhill tracks.

If you build a sub 27lb LT hardtail and use it for downhilling then the parts will break.

If you build a sub 27lb hardtail and want to use it for single track and climbing then fine, but put some appropriate length forks on it i.e. 120mm or less.

I had a Dialled Alpine which I used for downhill. It had marzocchi 66’s dual ply tires and mavic downhill rims. It was awesome and heavy but it didnt break.

Or ignore all the above and go for it!

+1 for what David says….

if you’re thinking about the finished weight then you’re doing it wrong.

asthetically i like the look of the Alpine over the Evil. something i find wierd about the toptube/seat tube interface on the Evil.

i also think that the Alpine is better value for money and will be delivered with the bottle cage bolts.

the finishing is second to none and the paint on mine has stood up to a fair amount of abuse. may get it re-coated over winter.

here is mine in “XC” mode…. i.e. less burly tyres.

these bikes aren’t for riding, they’re for hacking.

Cheers for that guys looks like I had it wromg way round the only reason I was thinking of weight was that I HATE climbing so the less weight (within reason) the easier it maight be for me.

we all hate climbing….

more a case of slow grind/winch up hill. you’ll catch the whippets on the way back down.

i use mine when guiding transalp. ~2000m climbing a day. i surprise myself sometimes what i’m able to clear with the forks wound down and some bloody-mindedness…

NS Surge, half the price of a sovereign and the most fun bike I’ve ever owned. It’ll take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’! If you haven’t bought forks already, look at something like a Rockshox with U-turn so you can drop the front down for climbs – it’ll put you in a better position and the weight won’t seem as much of an issue.

The Sov is super heavy, over 6lbs. I definitely notice it on the climbs after switching from an Mmmbop. Feels absolutely indesctructible though.

It’s a case of recommending what I’ve got, but have you thought about a Chromag Samurai?

+ 1 for what’s been said above.
Have a Sov and it is a heavy frame, 6lb.
If you want a sub 27lb bike you would be better off with something else tbh, you could lose 2 lb before even building up.
However, it can take big forks and massive tyres (upto 3″) with good clearance and is great fun.
Mine has slx kit, coil Lyrik U-turns, Flow rims and 2.4 Advantage tyres running tubeless and comes in about 32lb I think, so not light.
But I’ve never weighed it accurately, its not that important 🙂

+ 2 for the above. Alpines are amazing going downhill but an arse to pedal back up if built for their intended purpose. Build it up burly, it’s not a frame for a light build. It’ll get you fit climbing and will certainly pay you back on the downhills, sounds cheesy but they really do come alive on fast rough descents.

Chromag look pretty good, but they are fairly expensive. A Cotic BFe is more similar to one of those than an Alpine (i.e. shorter stays and a lowish BB) and is probably a bit better suited as an all rounder. I have a medium 853 BFe for sale if your interested.

Heres my old Alpine

Sovereign, build it as tough as the frame. Mine is a similar build as Loum’s with XT, Lyric Air dropped to 150mm, Flows and 2.4 NN.
It’s not light but nor am I. It gets to the top of the hills maybe not as quick as lightweight XC but even on one them I won’t beat the wippets to the top so who cares about a few more minutes climbing. What I do have is a great all rounder that is the most entertaining bike I’ve had.

What I do have is a great all rounder

I’d probably say a heavy hardtail with long travel forks isnt a great all rounder at all. Slower uphill than a full sus or a lighter hardtail and slower downhill too. I imagine it is good fun (mine was)

If you want a great “all rounder” build your sub 27lb hardtail with some travel adjustable forks.

I had the lighter HT before and still have FS in the garage but this is the bike I always take out. The FS will out climb it but not as much fun on the twisty bits, the FS will also descend faster but you tend to plough through were as the HT the line is more crucial and makes it entertaining. All rounder may not be the best description but FUN certainly does describes it.
I have some Rev Dual Position 150-120 on the FS, I tried them briefly on the Sovereign but preferred the Lyrics just a shame that they’re white on a black bike.

Why not get another Mmmbop?

got a small Mk1 Alpine and love it. Built with 140 Revs and lightish ~1800grm wheels it comes it at about 30lbs, so to get one at 27 youd be really cutting corners and wasting the point of the frame.

Sov has a cult following but is offensively priced. Especially for basic 4130 cromo not 853.

Alpine can go uphill fine it just takes a bit more time than on a lighter frame. It is such a good frame which I have built up with Z1s to about 30/32 lbs – you could get rid of a few pounds with an air fork. It is a lot of fun and gets me into and out of trouble with equal measure.

buy the Prince albert better climber and a fair chance to get it to 27 lbs

Alpine can go uphill fine

+1

it’ll do everything other bikes will do, but some things it does better.

Dialled. Mike at Dialled is a top bloke as well!

Sov has very short chainstays don’t it?

Buzz, it actually has adjustable chainstays, so can be singlespeed or hub geared easily. I think That 16″ figure is at the shorter end of adjustment, and could be taken out about 1/2 – 1″.

http://www.silverfish-uk.com/cms-files/resources/23-ff4ff8543a1d740c317cc4691ac5828c.pdf

as said adjustable

Evil chain stay length: 412mm/16.22″ 430mm/16.93″

Alpine Chain Stay Length: 16.73″

So the alpine is shorter… 😉

Just got a call from a mate he now has thrown a complete spanner in the works: Ragley Blue Pig x????

How’s about one of those Ragley Bagger 288’s? looks like it will climb very well, steep seat tube angles.

Where do you ride? If the bike is for ‘ripping singletrack’ then all of the above are a bit over the top and heavy. Piglet, Soul, etc. would be better for singletrack and a decent weight if that’s what you’re after. 120mm forks are lighter for picking up and placing too, unless you like the bulldozer style.