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1. nads - Member

   Hi Singletrack users

   Currently have a Large Santa Cruz Chamelion and find it too short and too harsh for the general trail riding im doing so im looking at these to options as a replacement frame, im running a rockshox revalation dropped from 140mm to 120mm with internal spacers

   Both the Cotic Soul and Ragley Piglet have a nice long top tube and will happly run a 120mm fork only probem is i live in Australia i can,t test ride these bikes so is the price difference for the Soul worth it ? with the conversion rate to AUD i can almost buy 2 piglet frames.
   has anyone riden both bikes that could tell me the difference in feel thanks

   Cheers

   Posted 3 months ago #
2. bugcab - Member

   I have no experience of either but know there are loads of articles if you do a search on the forum about either of these bikes. Purchasing power of the AUD is immense fir you at the moment. Good luck.

   Posted 3 months ago #
3. toys19 - Member

   Had a cotic bfe which has the same geom as the soul, great great bike. Excellent quality, I would recommend cotic products any time. Dunno anything about ragleys..

   Posted 3 months ago #
4. hora - Member

   Selling your chameleon? markhoracekuk@yahoo.com

   Posted 3 months ago #
5. Bregante - Member

   Hora
   

   
   only probem is i live in Australia

   Posted 3 months ago #
6. sturider - Member

   Have had a Ragley Piglet X9 18" for a few months now.
   Love the bike. I already have a Blue pig. The slightly steeper head angle and shorter fork makes it feel a little bit more XC. I live in North Yorkshire and have ridden the bike in the Lakes, Dales, trail centres and local routes. At £260/270 for a frame its a fantastic price. It a no fuss, strong comfortable (curved seat stays) steel MTB.
   
   IMG_0141 by Yorkshirebiking, on Flickr
   I made a vid of our ride in the Lake District on the Piglet.Hope you like.
   http://vimeo.com/35949459

   Posted 3 months ago #
7. tragically1969 - Member

   Is the Piglet not just cheap cromo, the Soul is 853 main triangle, you are not really comparing like for like so a price comparison is not really the way to do it ?

   I would say Soul as i swapped to one from a 120mm FS and haven't ever regretted it, but i should add i haven't ridden a Piglet so cant compare properly.

   Posted 3 months ago #
8. chiefgrooveguru - Member

   Haven't ridden a Piglet but it looks appealing despite the Ragley QC issues. However that would worry me if I were having a frame shipped across the world. Own a Soul and think it's fantastic - note that it's almost 1lb lighter than the Piglet but stronger thanks to the 853 (and 631 headtube) front half. All the details are well thought out (benefits of years of design tweaks) and the finish is excellent.

   Posted 3 months ago #
9. fathomer - Member

   I was in a simalar situation to you a while back. Couldn't find a test ride either. I went for a Soul, mainly due to the QC issues and just didn't like the look of the piglet when I saw it in the metal.

   Posted 3 months ago #
10. hora - Member

    nads I've seen both in the flesh. No offence to Brant but visually alone they are polar-opposites. Interms of finish, small touches etc etc.

    In adition the carbon Ragley Wiser bars that were sent to me were insulting. How can any business not QC their products?

    Personally I'd go for a Soul.

    Posted 3 months ago #
11. bone_idle - Member

    I have a Ragley and as much as I love it, given the chance again i would pay the extra and buy the Cotic better tube set, better finish just nicer. And given your in Oz and ragleys have been a bit poor on the QC I would not risk it.

    Posted 3 months ago #
12. BadlyWiredDog - Member

    Have a look at the head angle on both bikes as well. There's a quoted difference of around 1.5˚- both measured sagged - viz, the Piglet is a fair bit slacker than the Soul regardless of everything else. I'd view that as a slightly more important factor than cosmetics etc.

    I've only ridden a Piglet briefly, but it didn't feel entirely alien back to back with a Ragley Ti, which is even slacker - most hardtails feel twitchy in comparison. I've not ridden a Soul bar very, very briefly a long time ago, but I suspect the Ragley will feel quite different in terms of steering.

    Obviously not the be all and end all of the thing, but thought I'd mention it.

    Posted 3 months ago #
13. deets - Member

    Both were on my shortlist but after months of research I went with the Soul. Amazing bike, though I haven't test ridden a Piglet for comparison. I was put off Ragley after mixed reviews on QC and I'm sure I even read somewhere that Brant who designed the Piglet thought that the Soul was the best made HT frame ever made (or something like that)

    It's very hard to find a bad word written about the Soul, which speaks volumes I reckon

    Posted 3 months ago #
14. brant - Member

    Brant who designed the Piglet thought that the Soul was the best made HT frame ever made (or something like that)
    

    Souls are very lovely.

    Posted 3 months ago #
15. nads - Member

    Wow thanks for all the replies, and the vid nice touch, there is no Ice on the trails around here it never gets cold enough
    Looks like fun though

    I have looked at both head angles and I would run the fork at 130mm on the soul as that will put the HA about where I'm used too

    I really want the Soul just had to find a way to justify it to myself and after reading all these posts I think it's definently the one to go for just have to start saving the Pennines now

    Also I have had plenty of info back from Cotic via email and no response from Ragley not so good if I had a problem with the bike

    Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated

    Posted 3 months ago #
16. Ishouldbeworking - Member

    Where are you nads? I have a large soul in Perth if you are local and want to check fit etc?

    Posted 3 months ago #
17. nads - Member

    Hi Brant,

    You would be happy to know there are a plenty of happy blue pig owners around my local trails

    Cheers

    Posted 3 months ago #
18. nads - Member

    Thanks but I'm in Qld Brisbane about 5 hr flight away but thanks for the offer though

    Posted 3 months ago #
19. spoonsacola - Member

    Hey nads,

    I'm in exactly the same position as you. I live in Melbourne and looking to build up a HT frame with a friend of mine. Buying power of AUD is good, but not being able to test bikes or even see them in person sucks. I've had a look all over the net. Lots of info on lots of sites asking for input on the 'what frame?' question. The Ragley's get a lot of good reviews and for the price are tempting, but the QC issues are a bit of a risk considering the distance and time taken to send things back that aren't right. I've contacted both Cotic and DialledBikes about their range and Dialled offered discounts on multiple purchases.
    In terms of the Cotic bikes, the Soul's geo is Head/Seat angle: 70/73 and the Piglet: 68.5/73.5, so the feel would probably be quite different. If you were to look into the DialledBikes then in terms of raw geo, their Prince Albert is: 70/74, so as far as I can tell, would probably be similar in handling to the Soul.
    Anyway, that's my 2cents (worth more now as it's Aussie Cents! :p ) Feel free to get in touch if they offer discounts for multiple frames...might PM you too

    Cheers all.

    Posted 3 months ago #
20. spoonsacola - Member

    As an extra bit of info...does anyone know much about the Kinesis Maxlight XC3? It's similarly priced to the Ragley bikes (the same $ as the Piglet actually) and is Head/Seat: 70.5/73.5, so from my understanding should be somewhat similar, if a little more twitchy/XC....

    Cheers all.

    Posted 3 months ago #
21. psling - Member

    Didn't Kate Potter (Aus XC MTBer)ride for Cotic at some stage? Sorry, not really relevant to your thread but just floated around somewhere in my head as I was reading through the posts

    Posted 3 months ago #
22. nads - Member

    The piglet geo is based on a 120mm fork where as the soul geo is based on 100mm fork with 25mm sag according to the websites. But if you work on 20mm = around 1 degree of HA there not that much different

    Posted 3 months ago #
23. brant - Member

    vThe piglet geo is based on a 120mm fork where as the soul geo is based on 100mm fork with 25mm sag according to the websites. But if you work on 20mm = around 1 degree of HA there not that much different

    The Piglet geometry is listed as a 120mm fork sagged.

    There is a lot of difference.

    Posted 3 months ago #
24. brant - Member

    Hi Brant,

    You would be happy to know there are a plenty of happy blue pig owners around my local trails

    Cheers

    Here too. Lovely bikes.

    Posted 3 months ago #
25. nads - Member

    Ok my bad, there is a fair bit of difference when I actually work it out,

    Posted 3 months ago #
26. MrSmith - Member

    If you were to look into the DialledBikes then in terms of raw geo, their Prince Albert is: 70/74, so as far as I can tell, would probably be similar in handling to the Soul.
    Anyway, that's my 2cents (worth more now as it's Aussie Cents! :p ) Feel free to get in touch if they offer discounts for multiple frames

    the 853 special edition looks a good deal at £295 if you can afford to pre-order and wait.

    Posted 3 months ago #
27. metalheart - Member

    The Soul angles at 120mm (sagged fork) is given here as being 69.4/72.4...

    Posted 3 months ago #
28. jambalaya - Member

    Cotic have a sale on their BFe frames - down to £300. Best of both worlds ?

    I am looking into longer travel HTs, consensus so far seems to be to decide on the type of riding and thus desired travel/bike type and then make your frame choice from there. In terms of travel it seems to me to be a progression from Soul (120 +/-), Piglet (130 +/-), Pig (150 +/-). As noted above lots of happy Soul and Pig/Piglet owners out there.

    Posted 3 months ago #
29. fathomer - Member

    nads - Member
    Also I have had plenty of info back from Cotic via email and no response from Ragley not so good if I had a problem with the bike

    Now you mention it, this was another reason for not getting a Piglet. I emailed them in August/September trying to find a demo bike, never had a response to this day.

    Posted 3 months ago #
30. soobalias - Member

    MrSmith, where did you get the 853 special edition PA info from?

    Thats exactly what i was after some time ago.

    Posted 3 months ago #
31. MrSmith - Member

    home page of the dialled site

    Posted 3 months ago #
32. soobalias - Member

    muchas gracias

    Posted 3 months ago #
33. mt - Member

    Get a Soul, fantastic bike.

    Posted 3 months ago #
34. nads - Member

    metalheart - Member

    The Soul angles at 120mm (sagged fork) is given here as being 69.4/72.4...

    Thanks for this link, my current the SC Chamelion is rated at 68 HA with a 515mm axle to crown about a 140mm fork since I’m running a 120mm that will put my HA around 69 if I change the fork to 130mm on the soul it will be around 69 as well but the well priced piglet with its slack HA angle is always going to be appealing,

    Posted 3 months ago #
35. zokes - Member

    Nads - if you're down in ADL at any point, you're welcome to try my Soul out.

    Posted 3 months ago #

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