It was an utter microcosm of the current conflict.

I hope someone deals with your wives objections to stereotyping as sensitively as you dealt with the Israeli thread.

I hope someone deals with your wives objections to stereotyping as sensitively as you dealt with the Israeli thread.

Again, failure to see the point that I was trying to make. Did any of you take the time to understand psychologically what makes someone drop a 500lb JDAM on a house in Gaza? Launch rockets at civilians? Bulldoze houses? Behead teenagers?

If any of you had done so, you might have realised that the entire threads discourse is what is fueling the entire stupid **** war in the first place. Both sides historically, have been pushed into what they are doing now by external causes.

But nooooooooooooooooooooo, Hamas are all terrorists and the Israelis are all Nazi zionists who control wall street. I get annoyed and make comments that wind people up because I’m really, really tired of the idiotic name calling and hypocrisy that we saw in that thread. I leaned more towards defending the Israelis in that thread because it was mostly one gigantic circle jerk.

People watch that crap?

failure to see the point that I was trying to make.

Oh the ironing and you just did it again
IF it is intentional brilliant satire if not then it is a real shame

Whatever Junkyard. I’ll stick by my opinion that every single one of you and I do mean all of you, including the pro-israelis and me, were wrong in that thread. There’s something that I can’t quite put my finger on about the debate, that irks me to the core.

Not one person tried to put themselves in the shoes of the opposing viewpoint to theirs and that is what is really needed to help bring about some understanding between people over the issue.

Try it sometime, try defending an opinion that isn’t your own, simply as a thought experiment.

But nooooooooooooooooooooo, Hamas are all terrorists and the Israelis are all Nazi zionists who control wall street

I think you are making up stuff again.

I can’t recall anyone claiming that Israelis are all Nazi zionists who control wall street. And even if I missed it and someone did make that comment it certainly wasn’t the majority view on the thread as you are implying.

Why the need to make stuff up ? Do you feel that your argument is so weak that it leaves you with no other choice ?

second thoughts..

Not you in particular ernie, some of the others although I didn’t like your line of reasoning either and thought it sailed close to Gonzys and others.

However at the time, I don’t think I articulated my feelings about that thread very well, causing undue hurt/offence. My thinking can be somewhat disorganized at times.

If people can’t take the time and think why their opponents are doing what they do, then were are all collectively ****. There are good reasons why Israelis are doing what they do, just as there are good reasons as to why the Palestinians launch rockets every day. After my comment about being able to understand why viper pilots do what they do, instead of debating how both sides could come to understand each other, it was 20+ pages of name calling and “you started it”.

I was even more surprised by that thread because I think highly of a lot of the posters here including you Ernie, in terms of intellect.

Try it sometime, try defending an opinion that isn’t your own, simply as a thought experiment.

You said this to your wife when she is faced with racism then

Have you got my point yet?

You said this to your wife when she is faced with racism then

Actually that’s how she copes with it. Put yourself in someone elses shoes and you can forgive them, or at least move on.

There’s usually valid educational reasons as to why people are racist.

I didn’t like your line of reasoning either and thought it sailed close to Gonzys and others.

If you are suggesting that Gonzy was saying that “Israelis are all Nazi zionists who control wall street” then I think that’s probably a fib too.

This is Gonzy’s view on Zionists, or at least what he posted :

gonzy – Member

I will however state again that I am not branding every Israeli citizen as evil. The evil that lurks within Israel is the movement of Zionism, which controls the government which is carrying out these atrocities.
There are some on here that refuse to accept that what the Israeli government is doing is wrong…and have gone as far as to blame the Palestinians for what is inflicted upon them.
People have to realise and see that it’s not the Jews but the Zionists who are the problem. The Zionists are stealing the Jews off their identity and tarnishing their faith. In doing so they are also using the media that they control to brainwash the population with their twisted propaganda.

It’s an edited version of a rather long post but it’s obvious that Gonzy makes a clear distinction between all Israelis and Zionists, and Zionists and Jews. The very thing which you apparently accuse him of not doing.

You never saw the deleted posts did you? And what makes you think I care about the distinction between Israelis and Zionists, that completely misses my point. Such vitriol aimed at Zionists is just as bad as the vitriol aimed at Hamas, when it comes to ending this conflict, no matter what your historical or ideological opinions are.

I would buy you some whisky and argue over this all night at a bar, but I don’t feel it’s good for the forum any longer really. I just had to make my final opinion known.

it’s all very confusing…best to just nod and shrug a few times. No one offended.. no ignorance displayed..

With reference to your edit :

If people can’t take the time and think why their opponents are doing what they do, then were are all collectively ****. There are good reasons why Israelis are doing what they do, just as there are good reasons as to why the Palestinians launch rockets every day. After my comment about being able to understand why viper pilots do what they do, instead of debating how both sides could come to understand each other, it was 20+ pages of name calling and “you started it”.

What a load of bollox.

There’s a reason why the Nazis gassed 6 million Jews, obviously, the didn’t do it because they were bored and couldn’t think of any else to do ffs. But quite frankly I’m not in the least bit interested in the “reasons” or seeing it from their point of view.

And btw let’s get this straight you didn’t simply say that you “understand why viper pilots do what they do”. You said, quote : “I don’t think I’d have an qualms being a Viper pilot and putting 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza.”

You were very clearly implying that putting 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza is justified.

Well, what I meant to say, was “If I was an Israeli”. If I didn’t I’m sorry as that confused a whole lot of arguing.

There’s a reason why the Nazis gassed 6 million Jews, obviously, the didn’t do it because they were bored and couldn’t think of any else to do ffs. But quite frankly I’m not in the least bit interested in the “reasons” or seeing it from their point of view.

I am interested, you see the Nazi’s as monsters which is the biggest mistake that you can make. They weren’t, they were completely normal people. But also, there we go again with the Nazi references. The causes of the holocaust are so far removed from the causes of the current conflict in Gaza that the comparison is ridiculous.

I fear this is going to end up like AJ’s helmet threads.

And what makes you think I care about the distinction between Israelis and Zionists, that completely misses my point.

You might not care about the distinction Israelis and Zionists but Gonzy obviously does.

I tend to agree with you, I see little distinction between Israelis and Zionists. I consider most Israelis to be Zionists so feel the difference is fairly minimal. In the same way most white South Africans were Apartheid supporters so despite many notable exceptions the two terms were fairly interchangeable.

I do however make a very clear a distinction between Zionists and Jews.

We are veering dangerously into the same territory as the last thread. I do feel like you do, that the blockade needs to be lifted Ernie. But I don’t feel that answer is a one state solution and I don’t feel the answer is more name calling. Both sides can be called a lot of things, terrorists (see what the Egyptian people think of them) and the Israelis could be accused of acting like South Africa. The thing is, I think that is all completely immaterial to the subject at hand when what needs to be done is that the two sides need to start to understand each other and compromise.

Unless that is, you want to pick a side and let the war reach it’s bloody peak until one side is wiped out. I hope that clears things up with you in regards to my opinions.