205 Toyo Proxy T1 R tyres can be overcome with a set of standard Skoda Vrs brakes (probably similar to your Leon)

I am quite a progressive braker too, so I don’t think its how I brake.

The suspension and how the car transfers its weight under braking will have a huge effect on how well a car is able to use its rear brakes. This is more to do with the height and position of the COG than how hard the suspension is etc.

PS Edited to add this would obviously not be true if tyres purely worked on friction. If that were the case wider tyres would not offer any more grip than narrow tyres. They work by deforming into the road surface providing a mechanical interlock, if that makes sense.

Edited to add this would obviously not be true if tyres purely worked on friction. If that were the case wider tyres would not offer any more grip than narrow tyres

Lost me there on the physics / mechanics 😯

I think he means that the relationship between pressure and friction is not linear…

Seems odd to me tuning a diesel! I still see a diesel engine for skint flints buses and trains! Blah di blah they have more lower torque etc etc. If it was power I was wanting I would rather have a petrol. I mean who would take a fast diesel BMW over an M3 or the same in the Audi or Merc etc. Diesel are great for saving on the fuel and towing but just cant see the point in boosting them up.

Also seems ood getting into some heated debate about brakes. I agree if I wanted more power I would want bigger brakes and better suspension. No brainer to me. If you are trying to turn a Tescos shopping car into something a bit more sporty then at least spalsh the cash! Or just get a proper sports car

I think he means that the relationship between pressure and friction is not linear..

Sort of, in a situation where only friction is stopping two surfaces sliding against each other, increasing the area of the surfaces does not increase the force required to slide the two surfaces over each other, because as you increase the area you decrease the pressure (force pressing them together) by the same amount.

So if I skid, I’m a crap driver, but if you drive so close to the limit of a bouncy 4×4 (which is quite frankly not the best tool for the job) that you are sliding it’s rear wheels……..what does that make you? Driving God? Stig-Wannabe?

You need to learn to seperate ‘having fun’ from ‘crap driving’ 🙂
At one quarry I used to work at, I found a corner coming off a stockpile where I could powerslide a 26tonne Volvo loading shovel fairly easily. Now, THATS ‘not the best tool’ eihter, but it sure is fun! 🙂

I would only be getting a remap to improve acceleration, particularly in-gear. So i still fail to see how a re-map would be a danger without improving the brakes if I still stick to 30 in a 30, 40 in a 40, 70 in a 70……..the remap hasn’t altered the stopping distance at those speeds. I am still able to judge corner entry speeds etc. and never drive on the limit of my cars performance anyway, so have plenty of headroom, whereas you driving your 1.3 Jimny with it’s rear-end sliding about, eking every last horsepower have no headroom whatsoever……

What do you need ‘improve(ed) acceleration’ for?

I still see a diesel engine for skint flints buses and trains

Your loss then 🙂

The point with tuning diesels is that you can increase power loads but still not have to break the bank for fuel. The higher the power, the greater the difference in fuel economy between the two.

I had an old runabout 1.9 TD Passat with 75bhp. It was possible (with severe mods) to get 250bhp from that engine, apparently. You had to:

1) fit a massive turbo and intercooler
2) make sure you had the metal head gasket
3) swap the head bolts for studs
4) fit higher flow injectors
5) have the injector internals re-machined (equivalent to a remap on this thing)
6) fit a methanol injector to the intake
7) fit a huge downpipe to control EGT
8) be prepared for masses of smoke, and three skidmarks left on the road – the extra one being the stripe of soot left behind 🙂

Stumpy – you need to calm down. The Jimny has some weird rear diff that AT VERY LOW SPEEDS means the back end tends to skate about a bit. M MUM gets this in hers too. No way I’d drive it to it’s limits of lateral grip. You just need to thrash the engine to get it going properly. Quite satisfying.

had an old runabout 1.9 TD Passat with 75bhp. It was possible (with severe mods) to get 250bhp from that engine, apparently. You had to:

1) fit a massive turbo and intercooler
2) make sure you had the metal head gasket
3) swap the head bolts for studs
4) fit higher flow injectors
5) have the injector internals re-machined (equivalent to a remap on this thing)
6) fit a methanol injector to the intake
7) fit a huge downpipe to control EGT
be prepared for masses of smoke, and three skidmarks left on the road – the extra one being the stripe of soot left behind

Or, alternaively, just put a petrol engine in it.

LOL @ the ‘skinflints, busses and trains’ remark too. 🙂 My thoughts exactly, I was very happy to get rid of our oil burner. 🙂

Or, alternaively, just put a petrol engine in it.

LOL @ the ‘skinflints, busses and trains’ remark too. My thoughts exactly, I was very happy to get rid of our oil burner.

Amen

But apparently there are people out there that prefer the way a diesel drives, economy is just a bonus, but that is another debate entirely

petrol engines arn’t always the best option.

Take the BMW 320i v 320d for example, its widely acknowledged the 320d is better with the Diesel being both faster & more powerful…

I had my 120d M Sport done.

Not because i wanted to turn it in to a supercar, but it’s nice to have that little extra grunt. Most of my driving is on country roads so the power comes in handy for overtaking. I upgraded the brakes at the same time…don’t really think i had to but grooved and vented discs look nicer! The M Sport suspension is plenty good enough.

Seems odd to me tuning a diesel! I still see a diesel engine for skint flints buses and trains!

I used to think that, but the 1er puts as big a smile on my face from driving pleasure as my old e30 325sport and e30 318is ever did (and boy did i love those cars!).

Diesel tuning offers the best of all worlds and is relatively cheap, the only thing missing is the sound. My Fabia vRS has an FMIC, hybrid turbo, 3″ turbo back exhaust, meth injection and that takes things from 130bhp/230lb/ft to 245bhp and 405lb/ft which makes it genuinely nippy, and capable of 55-60mpg. It’s good for 0-60 in just under 6 seconds measured with a g-meter, and that’s including two gear changes.

Wife has a 120d and I have driven mates 123d, 130i and 135i

The petrol cars are by far nicer cars to drive, but MPG is about half, 130i seemed to be the worst.

130i seemed to handle the best, but 135i was a rocket ship in a straight line.

But apparently there are people out there that prefer the way a diesel drives, economy is just a bonus

I know. Strange innit? I suppose there might be some expensive super-duper diesel cars out there that are pretty nice to drive, but all the ones I’ve ever driven (And that’s a LOT!) have been a bit nasty in one way or another.
Sure, they do have their advantages. Our Vecrta was a great motorway car and did 45mpg. We bought it cheap in the first palce, and it was low milage and immaculate. A good deal. And at the time I was doing 20k miles a year, so it saved us some money. But in town it was a pig to drive. I’ve also driven the comparable diesel to our 1.6 Focus as well (It’s my sisters car) and that was maybe a tad faster than our car, but again, just a bit nasty. Dead. Heavy. Understeery. Sluggish. Where our petrol engine is zippy, crisp and revvy, and noticably lighter up front…..

You need to learn to seperate ‘having fun’ from ‘crap driving’
At one quarry I used to work at, I found a corner coming off a stockpile where I could powerslide a 26tonne Volvo loading shovel fairly easily. Now, THATS ‘not the best tool’ eihter, but it sure is fun!

PP – if you are ‘having fun’ in situations where you might endanger others (on the road), I’d call that crap driving, regardless of how skilled you are. Your reference to messing round in a quarry isn’t particularly relevant. And this is all going a bit OT anyway….

What do you need ‘improve(ed) acceleration’ for?

Overtaking on country roads, accelerating along short slip roads, drag racing BMW’s……..the list is quite long….. 😉

SM – I am calm, thanks.

Problem with chipping diesels is it does not remove the 100kg extra weight over a petrol version from the car 🙂

its widely acknowledged the 320d is better with the Diesel being both faster & more powerful…

It might be. But speed and power are not the be all and end all of driving, you know. 🙂

With custom map you often get a smoother power delivery too. My A2 had a very narrow power band, started at 2000rpm and was all over by 3000. Now it starts at around 1700rpm and will only tail off at around 4000. If i can ar5ed, i’ll dig out the rolling road graph that show the before and after traces. The extra power is almost a bonus, it doesn’t affect fuel ecomony, the car drives better for it. In same ways id say why wouldn’t you?

Going back to the original post, chipping cars isnt a bad thing and doesn’t “kill” the car. It might cause problems with bits and pieces that are on their way out though. Avoid the “plug and play” options, get it on a rolling road for a proper remap. As i recall the cost is not too dissimlar.

Vauxhall’s are sh1te… that will explain a lot

Overtaking on country roads, accelerating along short slip roads, drag racing BMW’s……..the list is quite long…..

That’s exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks! 🙂

Training will teach you most of that. You don’t need more power. Seriously, go and find out for yourself. I know you think I’m talking bollox (How can training make me overtake faster?) and I’m not even going to try and explain it here. Just do it. It’ll be chaeper than a chip, and you’ll be faster. Live and learn, I dare you. 🙂

PP – if you are ‘having fun’ in situations where you might endanger others (on the road), I’d call that crap driving,

And what if you’re not?

PeterPoddy – Member
its widely acknowledged the 320d is better with the Diesel being both faster & more powerful…
It might be. But speed and power are not the be all and end all of driving, you know.

I didn’t imply it was…

I didn’t imply it was…

Thankyou. 🙂

But you did…….

Training will teach you most of that. You don’t need more power. Seriously, go and find out for yourself. I know you think I’m talking bollox (How can training make me overtake faster?) and I’m not even going to try and explain it here. Just do it. It’ll be chaeper than a chip, and you’ll be faster. Live and learn, I dare you.

You’re assuming I haven’t gone & found out for myself………………

You’re assuming I haven’t gone & found out for myself………………

Ah yes, true. Good point. Have you? 🙂

PeterPoddy – Member
But you did…….

I didn’t, you presumed.

and noticably lighter up front…..

the key point most often overlooked by diesel afficionados…

Horses for courses.

Not every car needs to be the ultimate expression of performance.

Many of us like a comfy car that can move rapidly when you press the pedal. RWD, racing brakes, superb turn in and blah blah blah might not be really that important…

Food for thought for you petrol/diesel heads.

Having driven Audi A8 in 4.2 petrol and diesel variants, and also in 6.0 petrol, I can safely say that the nicest engine (in terms of response, effortless acceleration/mid-range thrust etc etc) was the 4.2 diesel. The 6.0 W12 was actually a bit disappointing, and seemed to want to kick down whenever you pressed the accelerator.

In a similar vein, the BMW 730i seems a bit undernourished compared to the 730d.

All of this is before considering the fuel consumption, which in the diesel cars is roughly half that of their petrol equivalent.

The above are heavy old things, and the additional weight of the TDi engines is therefore less noticeable. In smaller cars there’s less of a clear-cut case, but for the big brigade, I’d go diesel every time.

Passat CC 2.0 TSI = 1533 kg
Passat CC 2.0 TDI = 1566 kg

33kg in it for the same displacement.

The above are heavy old things, and the additional weight of the TDi engines is therefore less noticeable. In smaller cars there’s less of a clear-cut case, but for the big brigade, I’d go diesel every time.

I’d probably agree with this, big car, autobox, diesel is a no brainer.

But every time I see a TDI Audi TT or VW Scirroco TDI I just wonder what they were thinking

But every time I see a TDI Audi TT or VW Scirroco TDI I just wonder what they were thinking

Easy. You want something reasonably nippy and sporty, but don’t want to put up with 30mpg. Seems perfectly straightforward to me. Whoever buys a Scirocco clearly isn’t after the ultimate racing track experience, so why does it matter if it’s diesel?

Problem with chipping diesels is it does not remove the 100kg extra weight over a petrol version from the car

BMW 335i Auto – 1550kgs
BMW 335d (always auto) – 1580kgs.

That’ll be almost very close equivalent engines, performance and a mere 30kg difference. Similar with Mol’s example. 30 odd kgs is nothing in cars over 1500kgs – a mere 2% difference. A few options will add more weight.

335d Coupe also gets the same 1/4 mile time as a 135i. 13.9s. And a better lap time around Bruntingthorpe than the 335i.

Da da!

Mol, the diesel TT (and yes, I have driven one), can by no means be described as nippy.

Swift, certainly, but the diesel’s inability to rev and lack of throttle responsiveness takes away a lot of the fun of the petrol versions.

Obviously the fact that it’s not RWD means that it’s rubbish anyway, could never be considered as a sporty car, it’s only for hairdressers anyway…blah…..but in the case of the diesel version, it’s true. Just a Golf diesel in a posh frock.

can by no means be described as nippy

I can’t imagine how a car with 170bhp weighing 1370kg would not be nippy by my standards! 🙂

I have to admit that a diesel in a TT does seem a bit wrong.

335d Coupe also gets the same 1/4 mile time as a 135i. 13.9s. And a better lap time around Bruntingthorpe than the 335i.

Is there a link to the brunty test ? Brunty is pretty much one big straight with one slowish corner and two fast ones. I would be more interested to see how it faired somewhere like Cadwell or even Anglesey.

I used to love turn one at Brunty, its a 120mph flat out corner if you took a passenger out, you could see them going for the imaginary pedal and thinking why is he still accelerating and not braking 🙂

Bazzer – it’s very lame but all I have is a frame grab of the last page – you need either good eyesight or binos – or both to see it properly:

The 335i was a manual too 😉

I have to admit that a diesel in a TT does seem a bit wrong.

Well if I fancied something nippy but want more than 40mpg, what else is there?

Mol, I’m not explaining myself very well.

It’s quick, certainly, but it feels a bit more grown-up than the petrol version, a bit more of a cruiser than a sports (sort-of) car. The throttle response has a lot to do with it, as is the fact that you rely on the mid-range rather than the revs.

The engine’s astonishingly dull, and for me a sports car should always have an evocative engine rather than just a boring unit which produces an adequate amount of thrust.

So it’ll go quickly enough, but I didn’t find it especially rewarding to drive down a country road where you’re constantly varying throttle and steering inputs. I’m not claiming that the petrol version is a real sports car, but it comes a damn sight cloer.